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#16 Blood-Pigggy

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 04:43 PM

View PostPotatoe, on Apr 15 2007, 05:31 AM, said:

And in my game tanks should kill infantry easily. Not needing like 10 shots to kill a single infantry unit.

Most games actually have it like that, Command & Conquer is the only title I've seen that has tanks nipping at infantry. And even so, tanks aren't necessarily made for infantry, that's why they usually have machine gunners manning weaponry on the top or just implemented into the piece of armor itself. Once again, Company of Heroes does it perfectly, infantry can plant explosives on tanks and such, but tanks can blow a squad of infantry to pieces (although a Greyhound with a 30-cal. is about thirty times more useful and kill infantry twice as quickly as a Sherman). Besides, tanks are usually anti-armor, or light vehicles, they're made to destroy things that would otherwise tear infantry to pieces.

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#17 Potatoe

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 12:36 PM

View PostBlood-Pigggy, on Apr 15 2007, 07:43 PM, said:

View PostPotatoe, on Apr 15 2007, 05:31 AM, said:

And in my game tanks should kill infantry easily. Not needing like 10 shots to kill a single infantry unit.

Most games actually have it like that, Command & Conquer is the only title I've seen that has tanks nipping at infantry. And even so, tanks aren't necessarily made for infantry, that's why they usually have machine gunners manning weaponry on the top or just implemented into the piece of armor itself. Once again, Company of Heroes does it perfectly, infantry can plant explosives on tanks and such, but tanks can blow a squad of infantry to pieces (although a Greyhound with a 30-cal. is about thirty times more useful and kill infantry twice as quickly as a Sherman). Besides, tanks are usually anti-armor, or light vehicles, they're made to destroy things that would otherwise tear infantry to pieces.
I don't really want to play a game that I've played 300 times before(bleh, WW2 is so over-used, and COH doesn't even bring anything new to the genre). Command & Conquer 3 is the only game so fat that I've seen that explosives actually are useful against infantry(and C&C and C&C: RA). One tank can take out many groups of enemies, and my favorite unit, THE MAMMOTH TANK, is awsome. It has a rocket launcher, places that fire stuff 2, and a rail gun. Awsomness. And infantry do very little damage against tanks(excluding grenadiers and rocket launchers).

#18 Blood-Pigggy

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 08:48 PM

View PostPotatoe, on Apr 19 2007, 08:36 AM, said:

View PostBlood-Pigggy, on Apr 15 2007, 07:43 PM, said:

View PostPotatoe, on Apr 15 2007, 05:31 AM, said:

And in my game tanks should kill infantry easily. Not needing like 10 shots to kill a single infantry unit.

Most games actually have it like that, Command & Conquer is the only title I've seen that has tanks nipping at infantry. And even so, tanks aren't necessarily made for infantry, that's why they usually have machine gunners manning weaponry on the top or just implemented into the piece of armor itself. Once again, Company of Heroes does it perfectly, infantry can plant explosives on tanks and such, but tanks can blow a squad of infantry to pieces (although a Greyhound with a 30-cal. is about thirty times more useful and kill infantry twice as quickly as a Sherman). Besides, tanks are usually anti-armor, or light vehicles, they're made to destroy things that would otherwise tear infantry to pieces.
I don't really want to play a game that I've played 300 times before(bleh, WW2 is so over-used, and COH doesn't even bring anything new to the genre). Command & Conquer 3 is the only game so fat that I've seen that explosives actually are useful against infantry(and C&C and C&C: RA). One tank can take out many groups of enemies, and my favorite unit, THE MAMMOTH TANK, is awsome. It has a rocket launcher, places that fire stuff 2, and a rail gun. Awsomness. And infantry do very little damage against tanks(excluding grenadiers and rocket launchers).

Wow, you obviously haven't played CoH, it's not like ANY other RTS game out there, not even Dawn of War, which it was based on, it's radically different, and it brings fully enabled physics that actually affect gameplay in it, it introduces the excellent garrison and cover system, the AI is ingenious (by this I refer to the intelligence of your soldiers themselves) the game itself is a marvel when it comes to presentation, and the amount of strategies that can be employed is staggering.

Also, what are you talking about? In C&C rocket troopers and tanks did absolutely nothing towards infantry, if you were encountered by four rocket troopers when you had six Soviet Heavy Tanks, chances are all your tanks would die unless you ran the troopers over. It's even like that in the new C&C, I don't understand what you mean, in fact, it's one of the reasons why C&C isn't just a unit massing fest, because infantry and tanks are polar opposites when it comes to combat in the game, they both have uses beyond just being fodder.

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#19 Potatoe

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 01:00 PM

View PostBlood-Pigggy, on Apr 19 2007, 11:48 PM, said:

View PostPotatoe, on Apr 19 2007, 08:36 AM, said:

View PostBlood-Pigggy, on Apr 15 2007, 07:43 PM, said:

View PostPotatoe, on Apr 15 2007, 05:31 AM, said:

And in my game tanks should kill infantry easily. Not needing like 10 shots to kill a single infantry unit.

Most games actually have it like that, Command & Conquer is the only title I've seen that has tanks nipping at infantry. And even so, tanks aren't necessarily made for infantry, that's why they usually have machine gunners manning weaponry on the top or just implemented into the piece of armor itself. Once again, Company of Heroes does it perfectly, infantry can plant explosives on tanks and such, but tanks can blow a squad of infantry to pieces (although a Greyhound with a 30-cal. is about thirty times more useful and kill infantry twice as quickly as a Sherman). Besides, tanks are usually anti-armor, or light vehicles, they're made to destroy things that would otherwise tear infantry to pieces.
I don't really want to play a game that I've played 300 times before(bleh, WW2 is so over-used, and COH doesn't even bring anything new to the genre). Command & Conquer 3 is the only game so that I've seen that explosives actually are useful against infantry(and C&C and C&C: RA). One tank can take out many groups of enemies(MG guys), and my favorite unit, THE MAMMOTH TANK, is awsome. It has a rocket launcher, places that fire stuff 2, and a rail gun. Awsomness. And infantry do very little damage against tanks(excluding grenadiers and rocket launchers).

Wow, you obviously haven't played CoH, it's not like ANY other RTS game out there, not even Dawn of War, which it was based on, it's radically different, and it brings fully enabled physics that actually affect gameplay in it, it introduces the excellent garrison and cover system, the AI is ingenious (by this I refer to the intelligence of your soldiers themselves) the game itself is a marvel when it comes to presentation, and the amount of strategies that can be employed is staggering.

Also, what are you talking about? In C&C rocket troopers and tanks did absolutely nothing towards infantry, if you were encountered by four rocket troopers when you had six Soviet Heavy Tanks, chances are all your tanks would die unless you ran the troopers over. It's even like that in the new C&C, I don't understand what you mean, in fact, it's one of the reasons why C&C isn't just a unit massing fest, because infantry and tanks are polar opposites when it comes to combat in the game, they both have uses beyond just being fodder.
I'm talking about the theme. I don't feel like blowing nazis/allies up, since I've been doing that for the past 5 years(at least). And in C&C3 tanks and rockets are much more useful than infantry massing, since if you through a nade in to an enemy mass you kill quite a lot of units. In the orginal C&C I remember having lots of mammoths and they killed infantry really well(with rockets). And wtf? I never said that rockets don't do damage to tanks.

On a side note: Why doesn't CoH have Russians, Italians or Brits? All of which played major roles in WW2. And everyone of them fought major battles in Europe and the battle of retaking it from the Germans.

Edit: And I think that it's much cooler to see a giant black walker come in to your base and start blowing everything up while you try to muster up the force to knock it down than watch a damn tank blow up prettily so that rocks fly around and your generic american soldiers walk around and killing nazis.

#20 Blood-Pigggy

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 07:41 PM

View PostPotatoe, on Apr 20 2007, 09:00 AM, said:

View PostBlood-Pigggy, on Apr 19 2007, 11:48 PM, said:

View PostPotatoe, on Apr 19 2007, 08:36 AM, said:

View PostBlood-Pigggy, on Apr 15 2007, 07:43 PM, said:

View PostPotatoe, on Apr 15 2007, 05:31 AM, said:

And in my game tanks should kill infantry easily. Not needing like 10 shots to kill a single infantry unit.

Most games actually have it like that, Command & Conquer is the only title I've seen that has tanks nipping at infantry. And even so, tanks aren't necessarily made for infantry, that's why they usually have machine gunners manning weaponry on the top or just implemented into the piece of armor itself. Once again, Company of Heroes does it perfectly, infantry can plant explosives on tanks and such, but tanks can blow a squad of infantry to pieces (although a Greyhound with a 30-cal. is about thirty times more useful and kill infantry twice as quickly as a Sherman). Besides, tanks are usually anti-armor, or light vehicles, they're made to destroy things that would otherwise tear infantry to pieces.
I don't really want to play a game that I've played 300 times before(bleh, WW2 is so over-used, and COH doesn't even bring anything new to the genre). Command & Conquer 3 is the only game so that I've seen that explosives actually are useful against infantry(and C&C and C&C: RA). One tank can take out many groups of enemies(MG guys), and my favorite unit, THE MAMMOTH TANK, is awsome. It has a rocket launcher, places that fire stuff 2, and a rail gun. Awsomness. And infantry do very little damage against tanks(excluding grenadiers and rocket launchers).

Wow, you obviously haven't played CoH, it's not like ANY other RTS game out there, not even Dawn of War, which it was based on, it's radically different, and it brings fully enabled physics that actually affect gameplay in it, it introduces the excellent garrison and cover system, the AI is ingenious (by this I refer to the intelligence of your soldiers themselves) the game itself is a marvel when it comes to presentation, and the amount of strategies that can be employed is staggering.

Also, what are you talking about? In C&C rocket troopers and tanks did absolutely nothing towards infantry, if you were encountered by four rocket troopers when you had six Soviet Heavy Tanks, chances are all your tanks would die unless you ran the troopers over. It's even like that in the new C&C, I don't understand what you mean, in fact, it's one of the reasons why C&C isn't just a unit massing fest, because infantry and tanks are polar opposites when it comes to combat in the game, they both have uses beyond just being fodder.
I'm talking about the theme. I don't feel like blowing nazis/allies up, since I've been doing that for the past 5 years(at least). And in C&C3 tanks and rockets are much more useful than infantry massing, since if you through a nade in to an enemy mass you kill quite a lot of units. In the orginal C&C I remember having lots of mammoths and they killed infantry really well(with rockets). And wtf? I never said that rockets don't do damage to tanks.

On a side note: Why doesn't CoH have Russians, Italians or Brits? All of which played major roles in WW2. And everyone of them fought major battles in Europe and the battle of retaking it from the Germans.

Edit: And I think that it's much cooler to see a giant black walker come in to your base and start blowing everything up while you try to muster up the force to knock it down than watch a damn tank blow up prettily so that rocks fly around and your generic american soldiers walk around and killing nazis.

It's because the CoH singeplayer campaign focuses on major American offensives, not other Allied campaigns. Same reason why there are only Germans. And believe me, Company of Heroes has battles that are 5 times more exciting and intense than Command & Conquer 3. The explosives are absolutely massive, artillery is loud and powerful, and the sound is amazing. In a battle, you can hear around 400 different sounds, and the sight of a line of machine gunners shooting down rounds at 20 squads of crawling screaming infantry as they run between barbed wire and tank traps is amazing.

Everything in CoH seems real, whereas the most exciting thing I've seen in C&C 3 is a Juggernaught army walk into a Nod base and stand around shooting at stationary infantry pelting the thing with tiny rockets.

And in CoH, heavy armor REALLY feels like a massive beast, unlike the various advanced units in C&C. When you see a German Panther round a town square out of nowhere, shoot one round at a garrisoned building, blowing off an entire quarter of it, and sending your infantry scattering everywhere, it's terrifying. I never felt that kind of rush when someone rushed me with Mammoths in C&C, probably because I knew there was an easy solution that simply lay in spamming out rocket troopers or sending bombers to blow them up.

In CoH, that's not the case, you can probably send three Shermans or an endless amount of Greyhounds against that Panther and their shells will be like spitwads against it. Only infantry squads with sticky bombs and demolitions, or AT guns will put a dent in it.

It's so much more realistic as well, especially in the sense that it looks like real war. Once the Panther starts rolling through a destroyed city with twenty squads of Germany Grenadiers rolling behind it with Panzershreks and MG42 Light Machineguns, it looks like a real army, and if you lure those soldiers in a square fortified with camouflaged snipers, they'll start panicking and retreating like real soldiers, and the tank will react accordingly by blowing holes in whatever building your sniper is hiding in.

And second of all. Those "Germans" not "Nazis" fighting your infantry are far from generic. Infantry battles in CoH are very hands on, and they feel and look like real firefights, infantry take cover, use Panzerfausts, BARs, M1Garands, and a large variety of other weaponry. You can even tell them to toss grenades or lay down suppressing fire, and the enemy always reacts accordingly (when a grenade goes off, infantry squads scatter) you just aren't going to find that in C&C.

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#21 PrejudiceSucks

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 10:49 PM

View PostBlood-Pigggy, on Apr 20 2007, 08:41 PM, said:

*CoH stuff*
Aye, it's a good game - reminded me of  Soldiers : Heroes of World War 2 at the best of times, although on a larger scale.

#22 Juni Ori

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 12:24 AM

Rrrrrrrright... Watching that over 10 min trailer at CoH site - wherein the very beginning they proudly mention it's all game footage - and I'd like to know where's the realism you guys keep praising? Or have I misunderstood most of my life what war is like? Good AI? What the hell did that Sherman crew think when they drove past that StuG, leaving their side wide open??? And since when have soldiers started running crazy around in open streets when they get barraged and there's someone ordering them to take cover??? The shooting accuracy of some of the soldiers was also quite... well... unpro?

Nice looks, possibly even a real gem in the industry, dunno, but don't come telling me it's realistic... Using bazookas against infantry in open, etc... Infantry in open when there's buildings to take cover from... Mortar shells causing randomly damage - at least two soldiers survived first in very close vicinity of hit, but in next second they are thrown to walls by shell hitting some meters away...

On the other hand I don't even go into C&C and realism... :P
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#23 Potatoe

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 10:44 AM

View PostJuni Ori, on Apr 21 2007, 03:24 AM, said:

Rrrrrrrright... Watching that over 10 min trailer at CoH site - wherein the very beginning they proudly mention it's all game footage - and I'd like to know where's the realism you guys keep praising? Or have I misunderstood most of my life what war is like? Good AI? What the hell did that Sherman crew think when they drove past that StuG, leaving their side wide open??? And since when have soldiers started running crazy around in open streets when they get barraged and there's someone ordering them to take cover??? The shooting accuracy of some of the soldiers was also quite... well... unpro?

Nice looks, possibly even a real gem in the industry, dunno, but don't come telling me it's realistic... Using bazookas against infantry in open, etc... Infantry in open when there's buildings to take cover from... Mortar shells causing randomly damage - at least two soldiers survived first in very close vicinity of hit, but in next second they are thrown to walls by shell hitting some meters away...

On the other hand I don't even go into C&C and realism... :P
But then again, C&C isn't supposed to be realistic.

On the trailer, I agree with Juni. Don't go on an on about the amaizing graphics since I couldn't care less since my computer is not a beast that can run everything on maximum.

Edit: To clear things up, I'm not saying that CoH is a bad game, but it's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for fun fluid action(read C&C) with the nice C&C feel to it. Pigggy, you also obviously haven't played C&C3 on anything more than easy level(and winning it is basically just closing your eyes and clicking random stuff on the screen).

Edit2: The campaign in C&C3>CoH campaign. Srsly, I like the actors in C&C3, and it adds to the feel immensly.

#24 Blood-Pigggy

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 04:21 PM

View PostJuni Ori, on Apr 20 2007, 08:24 PM, said:

Rrrrrrrright... Watching that over 10 min trailer at CoH site - wherein the very beginning they proudly mention it's all game footage - and I'd like to know where's the realism you guys keep praising? Or have I misunderstood most of my life what war is like? Good AI? What the hell did that Sherman crew think when they drove past that StuG, leaving their side wide open??? And since when have soldiers started running crazy around in open streets when they get barraged and there's someone ordering them to take cover??? The shooting accuracy of some of the soldiers was also quite... well... unpro?

Nice looks, possibly even a real gem in the industry, dunno, but don't come telling me it's realistic... Using bazookas against infantry in open, etc... Infantry in open when there's buildings to take cover from... Mortar shells causing randomly damage - at least two soldiers survived first in very close vicinity of hit, but in next second they are thrown to walls by shell hitting some meters away...

On the other hand I don't even go into C&C and realism... :P

The trailer on the website was scripted Juni, I suggest you go watch some gameplay videos on YouTube.

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#25 Juni Ori

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 02:21 AM

OMFG... Thanks BP. I was almost considering to buy the game... Now I don't have any such delusions... Thank you.

Btw... What's so different between CoH and C&C-genre? :P
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#26 DeathDude

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 03:20 AM

Mostly in terms of just the types of games that are being portrayed I would say C&C is more a looser style of RTS with a big emphasis on story, acting and all the elements that were in place with the 1st, while it may not be the most realistic RTS out there, it still has many elements that make it entertaining for fans of the genre, that has a following and has executed with the latest offering in the series, after the controversial C&C Generals.

CoH I would say is a fantastic game for any RTS gamer that actually seems to be heading in a different direction of realism but that would seem more real. Its not perfect, and really name a game in the RTS genre that can be to an extent as real as possible? You can debate about how certain elements of the game are not executed as you might imagine, but the game comes close, and its a start, eventually developers may look at the style and improve it. Its gotten great and positive reviews, praised by gamers, its a game that any sort of RTS fan should check out as well, both are great games, but really to compare the two can be tough since they both have their own styles going for it, and imo both do a good job in their respective areas.

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#27 Juni Ori

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 03:38 AM

View PostDeathDude, on Apr 22 2007, 06:20 AM, said:

CoH I would say is a fantastic game for any RTS gamer that actually seems to be heading in a different direction of realism but that would seem more real. Its not perfect, and really name a game in the RTS genre that can be to an extent as real as possible? You can debate about how certain elements of the game are not executed as you might imagine, but the game comes close, and its a start, eventually developers may look at the style and improve it. Its gotten great and positive reviews, praised by gamers, its a game that any sort of RTS fan should check out as well, both are great games, but really to compare the two can be tough since they both have their own styles going for it, and imo both do a good job in their respective areas.
:P R.E.A.L.I.S.M ;)
Ever seen or even heard of Close Combat series??? There the soldiers, every frigging one, trying to act like real soldier would do. Scripting can't be that hard, if it has been done already. In several occasions. Looking at how those tiny guys move in CoH and what tactics bring people victories in it, makes me just want to cry... And I'm not saying CC2-5 would be perfect. They are far from it, but right now, it seems we have gone baaaaaaadly back to stone age in terms of realism. But I do understand. Nowadays kids want simple and easy-to-learn things and one obvious solution to get through the problems. It's not only the game-makers problem, but it's more society's.

Be it as it ever may be, I'm not going to reply here anymore about WW2 "grand" strategies, that may work in CoH (which btw can still be entertaining on some primitive level). All I hope, is that if I ever have to fight for real, I have enemies who have learned everything from games like CoH. Or then not. It might make me scornful and thus make me make stupid move, leading me into shameful death...
...70 years... LOL

#28 DeathDude

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 03:47 AM

All going to say is your setting the bar way too high for these types of games,  we're getting there in terms of tactics and realism, your really missing out on such games but whatever thats your call, keep in mind with gameplay vids thats also a certain perspective, until you try it for yourself and actually engage in a few games, then you'll get a better idea of how the game really plays and if it really is as flawed as ya may think.

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#29 Juni Ori

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 03:52 AM

Well... All I have to say anymore is that I've always appreciated games that have something to teach to people. I've seen such. I've seen them quite a lot. But not lately. Looking CoH - be it trailer or from youtube - is giving disinformation. A lot. But, enjoy the game, be mislead, I don't care. But I'm not going to pay for that!
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#30 Potatoe

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 03:00 PM

View PostJuni Ori, on Apr 22 2007, 06:52 AM, said:

Well... All I have to say anymore is that I've always appreciated games that have something to teach to people. I've seen such. I've seen them quite a lot. But not lately. Looking CoH - be it trailer or from youtube - is giving disinformation. A lot. But, enjoy the game, be mislead, I don't care. But I'm not going to pay for that!
Wait, wha? Lost you there.

Anyway, I'm going to side with DD(praise his intellect :P ). I'm not one of the people who want everything to be as pretty as possible or as realistic as possible. I just want a game that is long lasting, entertaining and you can't jump in and out without problems. ;)