56 replies to this topic

[greywolf]

When I was 13ish, I had an idea for a series of novels and wrote quite a bit over two years, but by the time I was 15 I had tired of the idea, since there were so many holes in the story. It was about a young knight (this is set in the earth's middle ages) that traveled through a dimensional portal in order to destroy a mysterious Evil that had taken control of a ring of six dimensions. Stonehenge-like formations were to be the system of traveling, and I had made up some cheesy explanation for the travel system to be initiated (like lightning has to strike one of the arches or whatever for it to work).

Long story short, I grew out of it. I've since had a few ideas for short stories that would be interesting, but I'm too busy playing games to actually write anything.

[taikara]

@Juni:

Juni said:

Please don't put words into my mouth.

Hmm, let's see...

Juni said:

However, unless I totally remember wrong and I didn't read it fully thanks to my own project, I think it may be a little too unoriginal.

Nope, I'm pretty sure I read correctly. You actually did say those things.

Thanks for the "buffers" that you pointed out which went around them though, as knowing you, I'll admit it was rather kind of you to do.

And yeah, I know you pride yourself on being a brutally honest SoB who doesn't give a flying monkey's butt what others think of you, but if you want to actually help people, avoiding words like "unoriginal" when referring to a friend's work can be a very pleasant change. You can put up all the buffers you want around it, but trust me, it doesn't take the sting out. For one thing, just because it's your opinion doesn't make it chiseled-in-granite truth, so claiming it as just being bluntly honest is rather... assumptive and egocentric.

But, getting back to topic, my writing process is just the way I do things. Getting it out as quickly as possible and then editing later helps my creative process. It allows me to kill the inner censor and get everything out in the open. I also sort of go into a trance, as though the characters come to life and speak through my hands. When I'm done with the "skeleton," I re-read and tweak it to give it more flesh.

It's sort of the same thing that happens when I write poetry (which is what I'm admittedly best at and have the most notable record with), except instead of a character's voice, it's this string of words that gets stuck in my head. I write those words, and within minutes, more just sort of spew onto the page from seemingly nowhere. Afterwards, I re-read, rearrange, and restructure to create the most pleasing effect I can manage.

Even when I write reviews, or similarly editorial subjects, it's the same way. It's really like it's just someone else writing, and once I manage to sit down to write, the entire process takes minutes. The editing process follows, and takes a bit longer.

@greywolf: stop playing games and start writing that novel again

[Juni Ori]

taikara, on Mar 17 2007, 08:33 AM, said:

@Juni:

Juni said:

Please don't put words into my mouth.

Hmm, let's see...

Juni said:

However, unless I totally remember wrong and I didn't read it fully thanks to my own project, I think it may be a little too unoriginal.

Nope, I'm pretty sure I read correctly. You actually did say those things.

Thanks for the "buffers" that you pointed out which went around them though, as knowing you, I'll admit it was rather kind of you to do.

And yeah, I know you pride yourself on being a brutally honest SoB who doesn't give a flying monkey's butt what others think of you, but if you want to actually help people, avoiding words like "unoriginal" when referring to a friend's work can be a very pleasant change. You can put up all the buffers you want around it, but trust me, it doesn't take the sting out. For one thing, just because it's your opinion doesn't make it chiseled-in-granite truth, so claiming it as just being bluntly honest is rather... assumptive and egocentric.

Fine, I'll shut my mouth after this then: nicely twisted words. Where did that "it may be" part forgot? Is that chiseled-in-stone truth? I may be egocentric, but I can take critique. Can you?

Btw, feminine way to pick certain words etc. out of the context is amusing.

Back to the topic (as if we weren't all the time): I'm now over 70K in words now and every moment my estimation of final number grows. It may be closer to 150K... As may friend put it yesterday: "Do it your own way, don't think the publisher. If you start to think about it, you'll become brown-noser and that will only harm your text." I think he's right.

[taikara]

Again: whatever, mang. Sure, I can take a critique, I criticize myself all the time, I just prefer constructive criticism, you know, stuff that's actually helpful, and potentially even encouraging.

Nice stab at women, too, real suave.

Anyway, if you want a critique, here's mine (on what I've read thus far):

Your style is is a bit dry and boring. The good part is, it seems sort of like an attempt at Tolkienesque style of writing as though it's an historical account, the bad part is, it's not nearly as finely detailed or complete, making it fall short of being captivating. In some places, it seems a bit obscure and maybe even hacked together, like a patch covering a hole in a nice pair of pants, sure, it serves its purpose, but it's not quite as pretty. Fleshing out the characters and details would be cool, rather than flashing through scenes and dialogue.

Ahh, no, screw it. Here's how I really feel about the whole critique thing:

Critiques are stupid. Opinions are like a-holes, they say, and it seems some people just love to shove them in your face more than others. I really think that you can and should write however the hell you want without having to hear from Joe Schmoe how crappy (or wonderful) he thinks your work is. Opinions really are meaningless in the grand scale of things - it's hard to pick one a-hole out of the crowd when you're standing 50 yards away from a nude beach, after all.

My real advice is to find a supportive friend or two that will actually encourage you without making you feel like crap about it. It's about keeping the flame of creativity alive rather than having people around who douse it with cold water because they feel the need to be "brutally honest" for the sake of "helping" you. Yeah, your work might be crap, and it might never get published, but at least you'll have written it. Then again, that's what they have professional editors for - to clean up the crap the writers spew onto the page in the off chance the author wants to be published.

[Juni Ori]

Well about that critique, it was patched together in English so you'd understand it. But you're right about what you've read in many ways: it was a bit obscure, very unfinished - though edited who knows how many times - and the persons were vague. You know how hard it is to describe things and characters in language that you can't too well. However, I'd be curious to know what has change your mind: in our private conversations you praised it and told it was interesting. Doesn't quite fit into "a bit dry and boring"-thingy.

Your advice is actually good and kind of correct, but I'd say everybody needs critique for their work to improve. I've received it, however not even nearly as much as I've wanted. My friends girlfriend pointed out only typos and had nothing else to say but "it's very interesting, when I get to read more?" That's not critique, that's totally something else. Another friend told me about my first chapter's ending and how it felt like a sudden stop, like I was in a hurry to second chapter. And after reading it, I agree with him. First I didn't quite understand what he meant, but then it revealed to me. I wouldn't had ever noticed it myself. Thus critique is good.

About your text: I still haven't read it, it's been a while since I did read it, thus I can't remember much of it. Thus it is hard to give any critique. One day you'll hear it, as promised.

[taikara]

I don't like judging style, as that's a personal preference - I prefer to offer criticism on structure and overall concept.

Your concept is interesting enough, and when evaluating structure, I did take into account that you were writing it in English. This go-round, I gave you a critique, which is an overall opinion of what I've read thus far.

I hate public critiques (as in editorials and reviews you see in newspapers and the internet), because they are largely based on personal opinion, and are thus complete bull*crapola*e. One person cannot judge how everyone will receive something.

I think (honest and constructive) criticism is best once you have something to work with. Encouraging someone to write is a lot more difficult than tearing apart what they've written. It's also hard to evaluate something if you don't have the whole picture. For the process of getting it out there, I believe in encouragement, and for editing, I believe in criticism.

[greywolf]

taikara, on Mar 17 2007, 12:33 AM, said:

@greywolf: stop playing games and start writing that novel again

Seriously, though, it's really bad. I mean, imagine trying to write a "cool" story when you were 13-14. What was cool then is certainly not cool now, and thus I think it's beyond repair.

I've actually gotten kind of an urge to write short essays exploring the themes of short stories, though. Actually, I get that urge after I read just about any Ray Bradbury story or even a few Philip K. *putz* stories/novels. I just never follow up on it because I feel like I have to do it all the way, and that would mean 3+ pages of analysis.

I would like to one day write a meandering work on my philosophical outlook on life, but I don't know if that will ever get done.

[taikara]

Are you kidding?

People love old stuff, that's why allusion is such an awesome literary device!

Give it a few years, and people will be dying for the nostalgic style you have to offer

[Juni Ori]

Of course both are needed. Writing is lonely, heavy work, though not physically, unless you start losing your sleep because of it. Public critiques you mentioned are bullcrapolae, though they can give some information about the content.

Btw, did I somehow give you destructive critique?

[taikara]

destructive = all opinion, no actual helpful assistance or suggestion (and it is possible to give destructive criticism of the positive sort - after all, as you've said, it doesn't help anyone to hear that everything they do is golden, because it's likely not).

If you want to criticize constructively, for every negative point, you should at least give some kind of example and suggest a viable way to improve.

I think I've said elsewhere, it is possible to give an honest negative opinion and still be helpful and edifying (and even non-offensive!). You, my friend, tend to give all of the honest opinion, with little of the helpful or edifying bit. I can live with it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it, or that I'll respond well when someone does it.

[Juni Ori]

Well, I repeat myself: I can't give you critique yet. But I don't get how my one comment made you upset. Or then I have again misunderstood.

[taikara]

Well, I don't really expect you to understand how, because you're a different person with a different way of looking at things, just understand that it did, and that I can't explain any better than to say your method of criticism (support? ) just isn't my thing. All I can say is that I would personally appreciate a little more constructiveness, but again, I'm not exactly expecting it, either.

But really, it's no biggie, I can't stay angry at people, it's a blessing and a curse. I'm way over it at this point.

[greywolf]

taikara, on Mar 17 2007, 10:04 AM, said:

Are you kidding?

People love old stuff, that's why allusion is such an awesome literary device!

Give it a few years, and people will be dying for the nostalgic style you have to offer

Unfortunately, I don't think my work is quite as well known as shakespeare or the bible, so my allusions will go quite unnoticed.

By the by, I just noticed I got my first censor! Whee! (Even if it was by accident... )

[BeefontheBone]

That's to make "*putz* Cheney" look even more like swearing

Herman Melville and Philip K. are unfortunate casualties.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Lol, Putz Cheney.