136 replies to this topic

[Potatoe]

Blood-Pigggy, on Dec 23 2007, 08:01 PM, said:

Morrowind is a terrible boring piece of junk, the last good canonical entry in The Elder Scrolls was Daggerfall, hell, even Arena sucked compared to Betrayal At Krondor, which came out at around the same time.

The only two good games that series ever created was Redguard and Daggerfall, and even then they have their fair share of problems.

Also my friends play stupid games, I introduced one of them to Civilization 4 and they began playing that, but that's the farthest I've ever gotten to them playing anything other than Halo 3 or whatever other crappy shooter is out there. You can't take the opinions of friends when the only games they grew up on are simple ones, they're casual gamers, it's not a hobby to them as it is to me.

You also could search internet forums. Don't even try to justify piracy just because you can't trust the reviewers. There are plenty of mediums that you can't get info on games. Also, I don't think that it's the industry's fault if you are so narrow-sighted that you can only play Turn-based-shooter-rpgs-with spaceships.

Quote

Definition number 2 is a relatively new addition, and I don't buy it in that context.
Piracy breaches copyright, it's not theft.
What you've got there is an example of advertising goons using an emotive term they think will do the job as a synonym with oomph, and doing it so thoroughly that it's creeping into the vernacular.

If they want my support on piracy, I'll tell them the same things I tell the drug people.
"No more *crapola*. Just the facts, Jack."

It is copyright breach and theft. You are stealing the money off the companies that were in on the making of the games. It's today's culture that has demonized the companies. Most of them aren't that bad.


Also, you can check the definition of steal in any dictionary and you will get the same definition(1 being the one that is most relevant to this).

[_r.u.s.s.]

Potatoe, on Dec 23 2007, 06:54 PM, said:

_russ said:

you don't get it. once again, it's stealing if you don't pay for it. and kids like you think if you download the game it's yours. no- it's not. if you like it, pay and support, if you don't, *meep* the developers.

btw yes i know the distributors need money too but distributors didn't make the game and i don't appretiate them. companies like these (in music industry too) are the biggest *censore* ever

Can I get that in English? The distributors didn't make the game, true. But they still bust their *money-maker* every day to bring these games on our store shelves. You truly are an idiot. There is no other word for you. Just because you can't see someone's influence on the final product, doesn't mean they haven't busted their *money-maker* making the product.

It's twice the effort if you try and download it and send money to the developer rather than just go out and get the game.


steal      /stil/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[steel] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation, verb, stole, sto�len, steal�ing, noun
�verb (used with object)
1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3. to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.


Yes, of course piracy isn't stealing. It sure as hell fits the description of stealing... Maybe you guys should stop living with your heads up your asses where piracy is justified.

dude, you apparently don't know a *crapola* about distributors. of course they do bring the games to the shelves but they are legal thiefs. look, for example, at the big music companies like BMG. if you did some research, they legaly steal the money from the music makers. the people who make the music for fun and deserve all the money- they get much less than distributors. much less. and it's realy difficult to make a new album when greedy companies grab all the money. if i could, i would support the developers only.

and what the hell? you bring up some dictionary definitons of word "stealing"? we are talking about real stuff and whether you pay to the company or not.

brain      /breɪn/
-noun

1. Anatomy, Zoology. the part of the central nervous system enclosed in the cranium of humans and other vertebrates, consisting of a soft, convoluted mass of gray and white matter and serving to control and coordinate the mental and physical actions.

2. Zoology. (in many invertebrates) a part of the nervous system more or less corresponding to the brain of vertebrates.

3. Sometimes, brains. (used with a plural verb) understanding; intellectual power; intelligence.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Blood-Pigggy, on Dec 22 2007, 11:49 PM, said:

...and it's only worse when you consider that the best place to get a good opinion these days are on respectable forums like RPGCodex or so on.

Right, and I'm the reason I'm so bitter about the industry is because it's feeding gamers *crapola*. When you get something become mainstream, they start catering to the largest audience, and the largest audience here is a bunch of lamer loser teens who sit around playing shooters for six hours calling each other *twig-bundle*s and racial slurs and what not.
It's pretty dumb, it's pretty boring, and to anyone with a brain and gaming experience it's tedious. It doesn't take a genius to see the sales of something like Deus Ex, the sales of something like Crysis or Far Cry, stack them up and then compare.

The simpler, better looking, dumber games sell well because they have big publishers who can work developers like a sweat shop and have them squeeze out something with a shiny coat of paint while killing off unneeded extras, say like, Oblivion's full fledged Radiant AI?
People say that gamers like us are just bitter and in ten years people will look back and say "I remember Halo, Half-Life (whatever) and that was so much deeper than this" but that's just grade A *bovine droppings*, it's not hard to see the average revenue for the industry in the late 80s/early 90s and see how games have evolved with the increased popularity of gaming.

It's an obvious trend and it sucks, just like films or theater. Soon we'll have to be forced to look at indie stuff in order to find anything worth playing, and the occasional rare standout mainstream title. In the last months the only things I have seen worth playing was Mass Effect and Hellgate London, and only Hellgate London because I'm a sucker for Diablo 2 style gameplay.

[Potatoe]

_r.u.s.s., on Dec 23 2007, 08:12 PM, said:

Potatoe, on Dec 23 2007, 06:54 PM, said:

_russ said:

you don't get it. once again, it's stealing if you don't pay for it. and kids like you think if you download the game it's yours. no- it's not. if you like it, pay and support, if you don't, *meep* the developers.

btw yes i know the distributors need money too but distributors didn't make the game and i don't appretiate them. companies like these (in music industry too) are the biggest *censore* ever

Can I get that in English? The distributors didn't make the game, true. But they still bust their *money-maker* every day to bring these games on our store shelves. You truly are an idiot. There is no other word for you. Just because you can't see someone's influence on the final product, doesn't mean they haven't busted their *money-maker* making the product.

It's twice the effort if you try and download it and send money to the developer rather than just go out and get the game.


steal      /stil/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[steel] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation, verb, stole, sto�len, steal�ing, noun
�verb (used with object)
1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3. to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.


Yes, of course piracy isn't stealing. It sure as hell fits the description of stealing... Maybe you guys should stop living with your heads up your asses where piracy is justified.

dude, you apparently don't know a *crapola* about distributors. of course they do bring the games to the shelves but they are legal thiefs. look, for example, at the big music companies like BMG. if you did some research, they legaly steal the money from the music makers. the people who make the music for fun and deserve all the money- they get much less than distributors. much less. and it's realy difficult to make a new album when greedy companies grab all the money. if i could, i would support the developers only.

and what the hell? you bring up some dictionary definitons of word "stealing"? we are talking about real stuff and whether you pay to the company or not.

brain      /breɪn/
-noun

1. Anatomy, Zoology. the part of the central nervous system enclosed in the cranium of humans and other vertebrates, consisting of a soft, convoluted mass of gray and white matter and serving to control and coordinate the mental and physical actions.

2. Zoology. (in many invertebrates) a part of the nervous system more or less corresponding to the brain of vertebrates.

3. Sometimes, brains. (used with a plural verb) understanding; intellectual power; intelligence.

Wait, legal stealing?  What the *meep* is that? Maybe read the *meep*ing papers before signing? You can't really blame the distributors for stupidity of the musicians.

[Doubler]

Could we please keep it civil and stay away from swearing and calling each other idiots?

[Frodo]

This is slowly turning into a flamefest.  Lets get back on topic, people.  


EDIT
Doubler was quicker.  

[_r.u.s.s.]

Potatoe, on Dec 23 2007, 07:26 PM, said:

Wait, legal stealing?  What the *meep* is that? Maybe read the *meep*ing papers before signing? You can't really blame the distributors for stupidity of the musicians.

..what? they have no other choise in this big oligopol. they are not stupid.

you could seriously read some interviews with musicans themselves

[Potatoe]

_r.u.s.s., on Dec 23 2007, 08:32 PM, said:

Potatoe, on Dec 23 2007, 07:26 PM, said:

Wait, legal stealing?  What the *meep* is that? Maybe read the *meep*ing papers before signing? You can't really blame the distributors for stupidity of the musicians.

..what? they have no other choise in this big oligopol. they are not stupid.

you could seriously read some interviews with musicans themselves

Nah, too much trouble, besides, they are biased. That's what you said, right?

[_r.u.s.s.]

Quote

Nah, too much trouble

then don't go in to arguments about distributors and talk fairytales, hypocryte

[chumloofah]

Russ is absolutely right on the distributor front.
Arseholes, for the most part, out to bleed the developers and consumers for as much as they can squeeze.
Most of the moral dilemmas in the industry can be solved with a simple profit/loss pie chart.

[Eagle of Fire]

This discussion is so pushing me to support the piracy front...

I feel like taken hostage in a discussion between atheists and beleivers of God(s)...

[_r.u.s.s.]

don't forget to buy the game afterwards if you like it

[Potatoe]

Ok, I think I should clear up my understanding of piracy. Piracy is the act of selling the games that you got eitger illegally or legally to people for your own gain. So it's basically that I get a game and start selling it on the streets for my own gain, not downloading the game for free. I see your point that you download the game and then afterwards buy it. I think that is ok, in most cases. But due to the greediness of human nature, most people will not buy the game and therefore hurt the business(though it won't kill it, it's a large business, larger than movies). There is the moral issue that I as a consumer can't handle. But if you actually go out and buy the game, it's fine with me and I won't judge you, it's not my job.

[PrejudiceSucks]

chumloofah, on Dec 23 2007, 07:42 PM, said:

Russ is absolutely right on the distributor front.
Arseholes, for the most part, out to bleed the developers and consumers for as much as they can squeeze.
Most of the moral dilemmas in the industry can be solved with a simple profit/loss pie chart.

*bovine droppings*, pure and simple.

The developers suffer as much as the distributors from piracy.

[_r.u.s.s.]

nobody argued about that.

and you mean piracy in 10-years-old-kid way. not the real undeground way