184 replies to this topic

[taikara]

I just listened to a few songs and watched a few videos of those groups.

I have to admit, they're not bad, and lyrically + stylistically, much better than other European rap groups. However, there's still one problem. Culturally, rap is about competition, one-upping the next guy, etc. A lot of this is because rap is very socio-political in origin. It started out as a way to say, "Damn the Man!" Once it was realized these political messages were highly marketable, it began morphing into the Eastside vs. Westside gangsta-style phenomenon... largely because rappers from different areas, who never travelled or probably studied much, had extremely different viewpoints on life, and had a sort of anti-patriotism for their particular "hood's" way of life.

Basically, what I'm saying is that from what I've seen, British rap, like other European rap, doesn't have that same "edge."  It didn't evolve naturally in Europe like it did in America, it was basically "imported" from the US as a potential marketing device.

Dizzee Rascal and Roots Manuva are good, there's no doubt. But they're just not the same thing, and it will be a long time before British rap, mainstream or otherwise, could compete with American rap.

[DakaSha]

tai you cant really make the descision as you dont speak the languages and don't live here. im an american myself and it took me a LONG time to even listen to german hip-hop.

once i DID start listening i couldnt believe what i was hearing.... the german stuff is incredible. the language is alot more complicated than english which gives you more options. (but the hip-hop coming out right now though totally blows goats... whole bunch of OUR minority groups trying to act gangsta... its a fu**ing joke)

you said we shouldnt be rapping because its not from here (basicaly)... in that case americans should not be playing any "modern" rock or any kind of electronic music.
also: europeon hip-hop is ALOT different than the american stuff period... so its not like the stuff is being stolen from the american rappers. and you cant imagine a europeon performing because he doesnt have the flava!? can you please define flava?

and come on!... with the stuff americans are playing right now its a GOOD thing that europeans are doing something... 50 Cent is a joke...and the whole G-Unit "Crew"
Eminem has turned into a preaching pansy, Nelly IS NOT A RAPPER... what else is there even... anyways it all just plain sucks (although im sure there are some great underground groups... or at least some of the older rappers that just arnt selling as much right now)

oh... and it was not imported as a potential marketing device it evolved here also and is still evolving


@beef... yeah the language sounds messed up... you are right about that


@triton... that coke product you tasted in vegas.... it still an AMERICAN product bro

[Triton]

taikara, on Jul 7 2005, 02:46 PM, said:

I just listened to a few songs and watched a few videos of those groups.

I have to admit, they're not bad, and lyrically + stylistically, much better than other European rap groups. However, there's still one problem. Culturally, rap is about competition, one-upping the next guy, etc. A lot of this is because rap is very socio-political in origin. It started out as a way to say, "Damn the Man!" Once it was realized these political messages were highly marketable, it began morphing into the Eastside vs. Westside gangsta-style phenomenon... largely because rappers from different areas, who never travelled or probably studied much, had extremely different viewpoints on life, and had a sort of anti-patriotism for their particular "hood's" way of life.

Basically, what I'm saying is that from what I've seen, British rap, like other European rap, doesn't have that same "edge."  It didn't evolve naturally in Europe like it did in America, it was basically "imported" from the US as a potential marketing device.

Dizzee Rascal and Roots Manuva are good, there's no doubt. But they're just not the same thing, and it will be a long time before British rap, mainstream or otherwise, could compete with American rap.

The other thing about rap is that it seems that only black people are allowed to rap, with the exception of Eminem.  As a result, at least from my experience, white boys are considered lesser humans because they don't posess the three most important things blacks supposedly have: better rhythm, better sex appeal, and bigger male organs.  I'm sure any fair-skinned rapper from Europe would be laughed off the stage if they performed in the States.  I guess that rap is strictly black culture, and thug life in general is meant to "thank" whites for what some white people did to them for hundreds of years.

@DakaSha: An American product sold in Europe and elsewhere.

[PrejudiceSucks]

Nah, the only good US rappers are Ludacris and Xzibit.

Hip-hop and rap in Europe are very, very different. That doesn't mean to say that it's not as good, it just has different characteristics. Rap and hip-hop in the UK at least are a more underground kind of music, like I imagine that ambient and techno are in the US.

Most US dance music is absolute crap, it's very poppy. Really good dance music comes from places like Germany and France (Germany for trance/techno, France for house), although England's not bad either. We have a great ambient band called Faithless who I bet most Americans won't have heard of.

The same goes for metal. US metal just tries too hard to be cool/gothic. Probot, Slipknot, all of that music is just trying too hard. Try a band like Airut, you might be surprised.

Maybe one day US dance music will be any good, as will metal. Until that day, our music will be very, very different and nothing like each other.

[DakaSha]

another thing about hip-hop is that hip-hop does not mean being:

Black
Cool
A "Thug"
Poor

or anything else that people have become used to in the states... its very sad as yes hip hop DOES come from the states but the europeons seem to know what hip hop is.

hip hop started in the late 70's early 80's and was about life(among other things)...not being a gangsta. the NWA (i think) turned it into what it is today in the states.... (but like i said in my former post germany is heading down the same path right now with all thier "im a turk and im going to shoot you" bulls*it).

i do have to admit that thier is some GREAT gangsta rap though

and yes i cannot imagine a white german kid that has my build up on the stage yelling "*uck the police and thug luv for life baby!"...i think id puke.

but like i said they DONT do that. they are hip-hoppers NOT gangsta rappers

@sucks... i think xzibit seems to be a cool guy but i thik his music sucks... just my opinion though

@triton... so? only reason i pointed it out to you is actually because you seem to be a euro hater(with a strong nudge toward germany)... why?

[Microprose Veteran]

If this has already been answered, my apologies.

Do the Dutch really eat tulips and wear wooden shoes? Answer: No.

Tulip bulbs were only eaten as a last resort during the Hunger Winter of 1944/45. The Germans had cut off all transport to the western part of the country (containing Amsterdam, the capital) in retaliation for a general railway strike. Many elderly and children died of starvation.

Nowadays, wooden shoes are only sold to tourists like Americans and Japanese. Some folks like to hang them on the wall as ornaments.

Dutch mainly eat potatoes, fries, and either pork or beef. Dutch also like to eat raw herring but it's hard to find a decent fish monger.

[A. J. Raffles]

Is it true that paper-clips are a Norwegian invention?

[Havell]

A. J. Raffles, on Jul 8 2005, 07:18 PM, said:

Is it true that paper-clips are a Norwegian invention?

I think so, I also recall that they were a symbol of solidarity during WWII.

[Tom Henrik]

That is correct. The paperclip (among with many other Norwegian inventions) were the trademarks of the opposition force in Norway during WWII.

[Triton]

DakaSha, on Jul 8 2005, 04:37 PM, said:

hip hop started in the late 70's early 80's and was about life(among other things)...not being a gangsta. the NWA (i think) turned it into what it is today in the states.... (but like i said in my former post germany is heading down the same path right now with all thier "im a turk and im going to shoot you" bulls*it).

Hip hop and rap spawned from the demise of disco in the late 70s.

DakaSha said:

i do have to admit that thier is some GREAT gangsta rap though

Liar.

DakaSha said:

@triton... so? only reason i pointed it out to you is actually because you seem to be a euro hater(with a strong nudge toward germany)... why?

I dislike the idea of an European Union because it will spell trouble for America and the rest of the world.

[DakaSha]

Triton, on Jul 8 2005, 07:17 PM, said:

I dislike the idea of an European Union because it will spell trouble for America and the rest of the world.

so your scared... typical american attitude. well i dont want this to turn into a flame war because first it would suck.. second you are entitled to your opinion

[taikara]

The European Union "discussion" has been split to a new topic. It's more political than cultural. You may continue the discussion, but try to tone down the hostility, or it'll have to be closed down.  

[Puffin]

Ok, i'm not quite sure if this is on topic, but i don't felt like creating a completely new one. So I'll just ask here.

Has anybody been to Morocco?

[PrejudiceSucks]

Not for long, but I liked their Coke (for which they use the original recipe). I was on a day trip kind of thing from Greece. 3 hours to get there, spent 6 hours in Fez, 3 hours back.

Can't say that I enjoyed it too much, TBH.

[Puffin]

PrejudiceSucks, on Jul 9 2005, 07:21 AM, said:

Not for long, but I liked their Coke (for which they use the original recipe). I was on a day trip kind of thing from Greece. 3 hours to get there, spent 6 hours in Fez, 3 hours back.

Can't say that I enjoyed it too much, TBH.

I'm going on a similar trip, from Costa del sol.

What did you do during these 6 hours? I assume you were with a group, were you allowed to go your own ways? Or did you have to stick together?