30 replies to this topic

[Potatoe]

Moogle, on Mar 10 2007, 09:28 PM, said:

Emotions? Games? What???

It moved, shoot it.

Emotions, nah.

Exactly!

[DeathDude]

Well it can't be synomous with all genres. Think this would apply more to the rpg genre more than anything, because in those cases you have multiple characters, and most of the time, detailed back stories, and watching them progress, grow, fail, and so on, similar to how you would in a book, not to the same degree, but similar I believe.

[Potatoe]

DeathDude, on Mar 10 2007, 10:47 PM, said:

Well it can't be synomous with all genres. Think this would apply more to the rpg genre more than anything, because in those cases you have multiple characters, and most of the time, detailed back stories, and watching them progress, grow, fail, and so on, similar to how you would in a book, not to the same degree, but similar I believe.

Similar RPGs as Diablo(2+LOD) and Titan quest? Where the move, kill it applies...

[Docktor_Worm]

the closest a game ever came to making me cry (not very) was in KOTOR, when you have to decide which party member will die.

I think stories in games can't  work as well as other forms of media. I'm too lazy to say why, so I'll just tell you to read "A Theory of Fun", one of the most interesting books I have ever read, and one that helped me understand why people play videogames a lot more. Dave Jaffe is a big fan of it too

[DeathDude]

I think they are getting better, its definitely come a long way from the early days of FF, Dragon Warrior, Ultima and so on.

Again though not saying every game in the rpg genre, I was merely giving an example of certain types, where it could effectively be seen.

[BeefontheBone]

Fable has some good emotional impact already (mainly involving your sister, won't spoil anything (else )) - the next one could be great. The writing and animation in HL2 Ep1 really brought Alyx and Dog to life for me, and they did well in HL2 with Dr Kleiner and Barney (how cool was the moment when he gave you the crowbar and that music kicked in, the first time you played it? Heck, even the third time it's a lot of fun). Here's hoping Ep2 has lots more of that stuff (and less anticlimactic, too-easy Strider battles at the end...) THE sequence in Quake 4 (if you've played it, you know what I'm talking about, if not, it makes the whole mediocre game worthwhile) was pretty damn intense. Even something like Cultures (the viking-style Settlers clone) or Darwinia (they're SOOOO cute) can invoke a pleasant attachment to the tiny minions you've nurtured from birth to death. Ditto for Dwarf Fortress - text characters have never been so alive. Black and White's creatures and even its bit players (the settlers on the boat, for instance), with the help of some quality writing, were highly loveable (or glee-inducingly evil, whatever took your fancy). If anyone's on the verge of making me love a videogame character, Peter Molyneux has a good shot at being the one to do it. Unless Will Wright beats him to it

[greywolf]

The level of loving could only go as far as loving a character in a movie or novel, like DeathDude said. To develop real love, you have to spend time interacting with the person - real two way interaction is the only way you could become that emotionally attached to something. Videogame characters are not dynamic, and while sometimes they may do things you don't expect, after a while, you run out of surprises the programmers stuck in there and are left with a static character.

[Moogle]

DeathDude, on Mar 10 2007, 09:16 PM, said:

I think they are getting better, its definitely come a long way from the early days of FF, Dragon Warrior, Ultima and so on.

Again though not saying every game in the rpg genre, I was merely giving an example of certain types, where it could effectively be seen.

I like the early FFs the best actually.

[DeathDude]

Well prob should have specified meant just FF 1. FF 4 and 6 had quite a bit of character development, 2 think had lots of moments that were like whoa, with certain characters, with what happened, 6 had many more, those were the days, snes and genesis my how far we've come.

[Juni Ori]

greywolf, on Mar 10 2007, 11:47 PM, said:

The level of loving could only go as far as loving a character in a movie or novel, like DeathDude said. To develop real love, you have to spend time interacting with the person - real two way interaction is the only way you could become that emotionally attached to something. Videogame characters are not dynamic, and while sometimes they may do things you don't expect, after a while, you run out of surprises the programmers stuck in there and are left with a static character.

That's very well put, but even still I'd like to agree, but... Let's take puppy. At some point you can be certain what it does next, at least as sure as you can be with a videgame characters. At some point you can be certain about what your wife will do next (=nag), again at least as sure as you can be with videogame characters. However, I'm still not sure, could I ever really feel so strong emotions in games... This is really starting to bother me.

@Tulac: In what sense? Any.

[greywolf]

If you have a nagging wife, would you love her as much as one that surprises you every day with new ways to express her love? Of course, that's the ideal situation, and I know what you mean (I'm just being facetious). You can still love someone when you know how they interact, but people are not as static as videogame characters, and never will be (unless Google invents sentient AI ).

As far as knowing a pet's tendencies to do certain things, yes, that's true, you can predict to a certain extent after getting to know their character and personality. However, a videogame character has been programmed, and is static, set within a static world that will always remain that way unless Google achieves aforementioned feat.

You can have sentimental value for something that is static, like a favorite coin or pair of shoes, or even a videogame character, but never the kind of dynamic love you would have for your spouse or pet.

[Juni Ori]

Okay, how about I put it in this way: you meet a artificial girl in a game, that has so much similarities to your ideal picture of girl. By this I mean how she acts, her voice, way of thinking, her little gestures and she even looks is straight from your dreams? Let's assume you're a far more stronger in the emotional side that you are, wouldn't it be then at least theoretically possible? And sentient AI isn't necessity. The feel of it is. And think how much easier it is to fall in love to actually grow such a strong emotion as love? Isn't that also some sort of love? Small lacks in contact apparently are not a obstacle here. People have been falling in love without actually seeing each others for centuries.

Thus I'm not eager to say it's impossible. It's just too difficult for me to understand, I'm too cynical. The question lies, what about those, who aren't? I don't know. Mentally unstable are totally different question, but where to draw the line? What is love and what is not? Who is stable and who is not?

PS: If anger can be felt in a game, and I have, why not love? The more I think, the more I'm having thinking yes, one can fall in love with a game character.

Edit: Grammar fix.

[BeefontheBone]

A favourite coin? That wouldn't have been the first example I thought of

[Juni Ori]

Perhaps following is true: greywolf is Scrooge McDuck, or then he just ate him!!!

[DeathDude]

Also depends on your own definition of "love" its such a loose concept now a days if ya think about it, and then again your perception of love, may be different than someone elses.

In games think it is possible to feel some sort of emotions at times, from happiness, sadness, anger, sorrow, and perhaps even liking or relating to a character, granted there is like has been mentioned the whole notion of pre programmed scripts, that eventually you may end up learning about or seeing in action.

Depends on the content most of the times and the degree these sorts of feelings can be used, does not work in every genre, and just trying to ensure you can program this sort of behaviour too, can be quite time tasking, still think that ya can feel some sort of emotion in certain games, maybe not to the fullest extent, but least something that perhaps something that can evoke a reaction.