61 replies to this topic

[Nace]

I think that we should rise our kids to be wolves, but not as meat eaters.... I`ll explain :
A wolf is a wise guy/girl with social skills - with a talent to survive. We won`t achieve anything if fe teach our kids to stay home and study all the time.
Such wolves are more liked to be "hot-shots" in the future, because they will already have this other very improtant school: the school from the street. If you mix the street school and the studies there is nothing better than that.
So what if you cheat on some exams, I have allready said that most of the things that we are forsed to know will never use us.
Someone mentioned that they will use us to pass exams. To show them infront of the teacher.
Whell if that is the only use of those things, I will give him a nice sheat of paper of the things that he needs to see, and that`s all. The world will not end, and I will survive to fight another day. But this is only the case in my school, because my school has a "lighten up" policy for these things. I would never play spy games if I know that I could be kicked out of school for that. We actually have such risky exams, but those will take place at the end of june or sth.

[taikara]

I've gotten As on everything I've turned in this term without cheating. That includes hiring ghost-writer essay authors.

Of course, it's hard to cheat in Drawing and Composition, when the professor watches you work on your projects. Not that I would, anyway. I'm a sheep. An overachiever. A moral do-gooder. A quirky one, though, so a black sheep. I'd gladly kick a wolf in the teeth. Sheep aren't as docile as you'd think, really. Baa.

And I am also one of the few, the proud, the double-X-chromosomed.

[a1s]

taikara, on Oct 4 2006, 10:36 PM, said:

And I am also one of the few, the proud, the double-X-chromosomed.

you're with the X-[wo]men?!   

P.S. what constitutes a "kick in the teeth" (the one you claim to gladly give wolves)?

[DeathDude]

Is it something along the lines like kicking the sand in satan's face? Same sort of idea perhaps (To quote Mr. Bruce Dickinson in his song the magician)

[taikara]

Let's just say I inherently get really angry when wolves attack the sheep. My dad used to say I was his little vigilante. I've always been able to travel in the same social circles as the wolves, but I tend to use the position to protect the sheep (or more appropriately, the underdog - I was just going along with the established metaphor). I've always been like that.

I suppose I'm a stupidly compassionate person with a lot of fight in her.

[Nace]

If the wulf kicks you, than kick back.

No need to provoke violence

I was talking about students who can manage to use the brain and study, and not just study.

I wasn`t talking about the street bullies.

[taikara]

See, that's where I think you may be mistaken. You think it's okay to cheat, and that it doesn't harm anyone, when in essence, it harms both you and the honest people (sheep) that do work hard to excel, as well as society itself.

It's true that the world may not end because you cheat, and it's true that no one may ever even know (besides yourself).

However, writing papers generally isn't done for the sake of writing some bovine excrement on some subject that you'll never need to think about again that makes your professor think you're smart. It's proving that you can logically approach any subject and both analyze that subject and communicate your thoughts - vital skills in any environment. Thus, it harms you as you are robbing yourself of the practice you need to improve your logic and communication.

In addition, you are also harming those in your class who are your competitors. If you use a ghost-writing service or an essay-harvesting service, or plagiarize outright, you are unfairly competing (and it is a competition). You may push your ranking up the ladder at the expense of those who may honestly deserve the position.

And finally, the more people that think that this sort of behavior is "acceptable" because it "doesn't harm anyone", the worse off we will be as a society - because the first two issues couple to form a global plague - which is to say, idiots and cheaters being at the top of the ladder, making decisions for those of us who actually are genuine in our efforts.

Edit: I think my response would make more sense if you hadn't edited your post...

[DeathDude]

Plus the big problem now a days here is that the citation rules are getting more and more broad, why? Because of people who think it's alright to cheat on their papers, and as a result the majority has to suffer because of the cheaters, is that fair?

No it's not, especially when the attitude turns to now whenever you write a paper you are guilty and have to prove that your innocent all because of what a cheater did. That's not to say that there shouldn't be a broad set of rules, there should be especially with the way technology and the access of material has changed.

It's the idea that let's say someone accidently does not a cite a point in their paper. It's not because it was intentional, maybe they just lost their train of thought or something came into their mind. And because of some people who have cheated, depending on the professor that student could get kicked out of school, end up with their permanent record saying they cheated and that is a huge blemish, all because of an accident, when it was not intentional, but because of the new attitude towards spotting someone cheating they end up paying the price.

[Nace]

It`s OK, I understand.

The word "sheep" is not used in an appropriate place, it`s kinda rude.
As for the word "wolf" its kinda overexegurated  

I also think that the world would be a better place if we think of our class-mates as our team-mates, not as our competittion don`t you think

[taikara]

Nace, on Oct 4 2006, 06:25 PM, said:

I also think that the world would be a better place if we think of our class-mates as our team-mates, not as our competittion don`t you think

Unless the entire class can land the highly coveted, well-paid position of their choice after graduating, I think not.

[Nace]

taikara, on Oct 4 2006, 10:35 PM, said:

Nace, on Oct 4 2006, 06:25 PM, said:

I also think that the world would be a better place if we think of our class-mates as our team-mates, not as our competittion don`t you think

Unless the entire class can land the highly coveted, well-paid position of their choice after graduating, I think not.

It`s a big world, there will be enough work positions for everyone.

You see, that`s where our mentalities differ.

At the balkans, where I live and study we usually wake up like this   .
After the breakfast we are like this   .
Then we go out, and walking down nthe street we meet a buddy
He,s pissed becauso of something , but you help him get out of the depression bying him a nice cold beer. Then we are like this . People around us are happy for us and everubody is like this         
After the afternoon refreshness we go in a bar:
There is a band   and girls   and boys for the girls    and beers   , and that is what happends most of the days.
The next morning we are all like this   But that`s just temporary...

Money is not everything. I would preffer to have 5 good friends than                      5 000 000$. Call me crazy. I was the happiest man alive when I was with my girlfriend and friends, playing in bars, although we were sometimes playing for free. I had no money back than but I was the richest man in the world.
I have seen so many depressive rich selfish people, that maked me sick.

A dollar or a buddy? I`l go for the buddy

[taikara]

Well, so would I, but that doesn't mean it's not a competition

Some people don't care if they do well, others do. Some people want to make a lot of money, while some people want to pursue a dream. Just because the personalities within the system may not believe in the system, that doesn't mean that the system doesn't exist.

But to bring it back around, in the grand scheme of things, if cheating gets you ahead of a non-cheating "buddy", regardless of whether either of you view it as a competition, you aren't being a very good buddy to him.

And for the record (and in hopes that you realize I'm not really attacking you so much as the attitude of complacency), I don't think cheating makes you a "bad" person, but if you make a choice to do something, you should make that choice with open eyes as to the potential consequences and repercussions.

[Nace]

taikara, on Oct 4 2006, 11:12 PM, said:

and in hopes that you realize I'm not really attacking you so much as the attitude of complacency

No I`m sorry if I sounded like I was attaking you, I just wanted to make my point as clearly as I could...
You made you`r point, I made mine... we were talking.

I guess I`m the only cheater around here huh  

[DeathDude]

Indeed I too would rather have buddies and or a significant other to be with, but still involves competition of sorts happening anyway.

It's pretty much that sort of attitude like tai says. The thing is whether it's job or say a university position let's say where there are only 5 spots, more often than not it does not turn into a teammates idea but competition, especially when for those spots either you get them or you wait another year before you can apply. It's not exactly easy to be a buddy in those sorts of scenarios, and really at the post secondary level its all a competition for grades especially.

[Sinke]

I declare myself a parrot in society.