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Freeware on Abandonia?


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#16 Tom Henrik

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 11:13 PM

Caesar I is not freeware, so that one is a definate no-no for us. And BARIS was put on AB long before AR was made (just to rectify a statement), and Gateway is already on AR with new screens :P

And, Sean, it seems you haven't missed anything. We need all of that for each one. And we are working on adding Extras to AR now, so if you find extras for the games, please supply us with them as well :blink:

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#17 DeathDude

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 11:13 PM

It would essentially be all the normal requirements you would normally do for submitting a review here like always.

Edit: Wells guess I was just a tad slow answering. :blink:

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#18 A. J. Raffles

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 11:32 PM

Tom Henrik, on Feb 9 2006, 11:13 PM, said:

Caesar I is not freeware, so that one is a definate no-no for us. And BARIS was put on AB long before AR was made (just to rectify a statement), and Gateway is already on AR with new screens :P
Oops, sorry, I'm getting tired...:blink:
I also didn't make myself entirely clear there: Obviously BARIS was on Abandonia long befor the launch of AR. When it turned out to have been made freeware, though, it wasn't moved to AR.

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#19 BeefontheBone

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 09:15 AM

URLs for the site/download, and shots of the title/company screens if at all possible. No need to worry about thumbs though, we'll sort those.
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#20 Sean

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 08:17 PM

Okay, I'll get at least one of those probably more done sometime soon. I've got a week off of school and some time to kill. I love to help out too :ok:

Edit: Should I write fresh reviews or just get the required Reloaded exclusive stuff?

Edited by Sean, 10 February 2006 - 08:18 PM.

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#21 A. J. Raffles

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 08:22 PM

I think for some of those the AB reviews should be OK. But some might really do with a new review (NetHack, for instance).

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#22 Docktor_Worm

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 04:20 AM

why is it a problem if they are freeware? It seems like they should be on abandonia because if they weren't freeware, they'd probably be abandonware anyways. I think that the abandonware crowd would be interested in the aforementioned games also and there's no reason to flip out over a few games and make the users go to AR for no reason.
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#23 taikara

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 05:26 AM

Freeware games are games which can be distributed with no legal repercussions. Abandonware games are games which are no longer actively supported by the original companies, yet for which there still can be legal repercussions for distributing these games, if the original copyright holders take offense to the distribution. ESA protected abandonware, for example, is a big no-no to distribute.

It's a very clear dividing line. Freeware, either by independent production, or companies that release their old commercial games as freeware, belongs on AR.

We are not demanding the removal of any freeware games that are already present on AB. However, we do hope that AB refrains from adding freeware to their site, especially independently produced freeware, since the obvious place for those games now is AR.

Nobody is "flipping out" over this issue, seeing as how the last post in this topic was made over two months ago. Please try to pay attention to last post date before you resurrect a dead topic, especially if you try to do so a bit heatedly.
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#24 Sebatianos

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 09:02 PM

Well, it took me long enough to see this... Probably because I come here as often as a gravedigger goes on holiday (as the saying goes).

This whole thread started after I reviewed and updated King of Chicago on Abandonia, so I guess some reply (even if the thread isn't the most recent one) is in order.

There are TWO different kind of Freeware games.

Ones are games that were made as freeware, because some fans wanted to (re)make great games. I 'd go as far to say, those games shouldn't even be on Abandonia and wouldn't mind if their reviews would be removed and the games would be completely transfered here (I'm talking about games such as 5 Days a Stranger, Cirqe de Zale, Maniac Mansion Deluxe, Wings of Fury remake,...). Those are all great games, but their place is here on reloaded, not on Abandonia. WHY? Abandonia is a site dedicated to OLD DOS GAMES, and this new remakes and fan made games don't qualify.

Other freeware games are a completely differnt category!!! Games like King of Chicago, Flight of the Amazon Queen and similar, are the games that were made by game companies, were distirbuted and technically supported by actual game companies. Many such games are great classics. Such games should have a place on ABANDONIA, because without them an importaint part of the gaming history would be missing! Just imagine how importaint to the gaming history DEFENDER OF THE CROW is. Those are games that MUST have a place on Abandonia, which is becoming a temple of OLD GAMES regarthles of their freeware, abandonware or protected status! Yes, even protected games one can not download are found on Abandonia and that's where they should be mentioned!

I can understand that AR wishes to have some well renouned classic titles as well, especially when they fall into the freeware category for which AR was created, but there's no reason some games shouldn't be on BOTH SITES. After all these are sister sites, not competitors, so why not share some things which are equali importaint to both???

And just a sill question before I hit the add reply button:
What happens if the freeware status gets revoked? It has happened to some games before (I'm talking about certain Sierra titles).

EDIT: I just say Tom's list right here on AR - Games that are no longer Free (or something like that).

Edited by Sebatianos, 13 April 2006 - 09:15 PM.


#25 taikara

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 09:22 PM

Sebatianos, on Apr 13 2006, 09:02 PM, said:

There are TWO different kind of Freeware games.

I already addressed this.

Quote

Ones are games that were made as freeware, because some fans wanted to (re)make great games. I 'd go as far to say, those games shouldn't even be on Abandonia and wouldn't mind if their reviews would be removed and the games would be completely transfered here (I'm talking about games such as 5 Days a Stranger, Cirqe de Zale, Maniac Mansion Deluxe, Wings of Fury remake,...). Those are all great games, but their place is here on reloaded, not on Abandonia. WHY? Abandonia is a site dedicated to OLD DOS GAMES, and this new remakes and fan made games don't qualify.

And yet, there are new, independently produced freeware games available on AB, as well as non-DOS games.

Quote

Other freeware games are a completely differnt category!!! Games like King of Chicago, Flight of the Amazon Queen and similar, are the games that were made by game companies, were distirbuted and technically supported by actual game companies. Many such games are great classics. Such games should have a place on ABANDONIA, because without them an importaint part of the gaming history would be missing! Just imagine how importaint to the gaming history DEFENDER OF THE CROW is. Those are games that MUST have a place on Abandonia, which is becoming a temple of OLD GAMES regarthles of their freeware, abandonware or protected status! Yes, even protected games one can not download are found on Abandonia and that's where they should be mentioned!

Again, AB also hosts new independent freeware and non-DOS games. Have they been removed yet? Has anyone demanded that AB remove them? No. Neither will we, and neither will we demand that commercial-turned-freeware be removed.

Quote

I can understand that AR wishes to have some well renouned classic titles as well, especially when they fall into the freeware category for which AR was created, but there's no reason some games shouldn't be on BOTH SITES. After all these are sister sites, not competitors, so why not share some things which are equali importaint to both???

Please read before posting. I said in the above post (and again here) that there are no demands that AB remove the freeware it already hosts, not even the new, independent freeware. Also, I said that we mainly wished that the independently produced freeware (such as NetHack) was not added to AB, I did not put emphasis on commercial-turned-freeware games.

I did not put out a cease-and-desist order on AB for adding independently produced freeware, either. I simply said I would prefer it didn't happen, since that is AR's "speciality."

Quote

And just a sill question before I hit the add reply button:
What happens if the freeware status gets revoked? It has happened to some games before (I'm talking about certain Sierra titles).

Since we don't actually host many games here on AR for public download, and especially not commercial-turned-freeware games, since for the games we do host, we get permission from the producers, it doesn't really effect us when a commercial game released as freeware is returned to its commercial status. So, unlike on AB when there's an ESA crackdown, AR doesn't have to do anything.

So to answer your question, nothing happens.
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#26 Sebatianos

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 09:32 PM

A-ha.

Yes, I've said some things you explained as well, but in your reply I saw many I's, as if you're the sole representative of this site? Never mind, I don't know how this place is run...

I would agree to the independently produced freeware being removed from Abandonia, as they really have nothing to do with Old DOS games (even if no-one asked them to be removed). Those games shouldn't be on Abandonia in the first place (even if some are of top quality).

Btu as you may not know, the updaters on Abandonia have recieved a warning that ALL freeware games should be put to AR only. This doesn't mean that existing freeware should be removed from Abandonia, but that freeware games shouldn't be put ON Abandonia anymore.

So for instance Vroom, which is a freeware title (although not an independently produced freeware) would not be alowed on Abandonia. WHY? Because it's freeware and Tom has been making a fus about such things... and this very thread may have triggered it.

So if AR is trying to prevent old freeware titles from apeareing on Abandonia (that's how Tom's posts are interpreted) then that is a problem!

#27 DeathDude

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 09:37 PM

Uh I thought we came to an understanding of AR's position and it's been outlined earlier in the thread many times. So perhaps a little more careful reading is in order. :angel:

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#28 Sebatianos

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 09:43 PM

You keep repeating CAREFUL reading. Have any actually carefully read my post?

1) I'm not talking about AR demanding games to be taken down from Abandonia.
2) I'm talking about NOT-independant freeware games.
EDIT: 3) I'm talking about puting commercial-turned-freeware games on BOTH sites.
4) I'm asking why there have been complaints about non-independant freeware being put to Abandonia (actually I just only now directly asked that) - that's the one that started this whole topic.

Edited by Sebatianos, 13 April 2006 - 09:44 PM.


#29 Tom Henrik

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 09:45 PM

Personally, I would like to add that this conversation has been debated over and over between Kosta, Taikara and myself.

We are done with this discussion.

The final verdict is that in the future all games discovered to be freeware shall be added to AR, no matter if the game was a DOS oldie - or a completely new game.

What does that mean?
As has been said over and over again in this topic (and other topics as well, both on AR and AB), we do not want Abandonia to remove any of the games on the site. Once a game is on AB, it stays for good.

However, if Abandonia gets handed a freeware game by a forum member, then the crew on AB have the responsibility of handing that game over to AR. (An easy way to check game-status, is using the DOS list. Something updaters on AB should do for every game they update with.)

If the updaters aren't aware that the game in question is infact freeware, then no-one is going to punish them for this - nor is anyone going to be upset.

It is when a freeware game is deliberately put on the wrong site, that sparks fly.

@Seb
I know how you feel about Abandonia, and that it is a central for old DOS games, but this decision does not lie with you. This has been decided by Kosta, Taikara and myself.

I understand that you feel that Abandonia looses major titles, as they have been made freeware, but the truth is that Abandonia has gained over 100 new titles.

If we were to dual host all old DOS freeware games on both sites, then the bandwith would increase an awful lot. That is one reason why we agreed that all freeware should be on AR, and all abandonware should be on AB.

Another reason is that dual hosting is confusing to the users - as they think that the two sites are just copy-cats of eachother.



The only problem right now is that we don't have a common search engine for the sites, that you can use to get to any games on the two sites. (Unless you count the DOS list - which does).

However, this will all change in the future, when we get new site designs. :angel:

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#30 BeefontheBone

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 09:46 PM

I think Seb's got a point if our position's been miscommunicated over at AB, although I'm not sure this public forum's necessarily the best place to discuss it. Old DOS games which happen to be freware are fair game for AB (and here, of course) as far as I'm concerned  - some of the titles on both sites already have "download" buttons pointing here (FOTAQ). Removing games from AB seems a bit drastic, mind.

EDIT: Cross posted with Tom. In that case I'll just say I agree with Seb, although Tom does make a fair point about bandwidth.
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