89 replies to this topic

[PrejudiceSucks]

Yeah, there's not really that much to celebrate.

Yeah, sorry, for "hippies" read "environmentalists of the nutteresque variety".

[Juni Ori]

Juni's history trivia #28: March 13. 1940 Winter War ends. Red Army had thrown five times men and enormous times equipment to Carelian Isthmus than Finns. 105 days of cold hell ends. Some terrain lost, but sovereignty held. Juni's history trivia wishes to thank those veterans.

[Juni Ori]

Juni's history trivia #29: June 22. 1941 Operation Barbarossa begins. Red Army is totally surprised and defences breached in no time. World's biggest slaughter begins.

[Blood-Pigggy]

They are so totally surprised man.
Like, totally.

[PrejudiceSucks]

Blood-Pigggy, on Jun 22 2006, 11:47 AM, said:

They are so totally surprised man.
Like, totally.

Oh the hilarity of millions of dead!

[DakaSha]

oh cap it

[Tom Henrik]

Peace, people.

[Blood-Pigggy]

What people!?

Ooh, in this day in history, in 1998 I got my appendix removedzors!

[a1s]

Blood-Pigggy, on Jun 22 2006, 10:47 AM, said:

They are so totally surprised man.
Like, totally.

well as a matter of fact yes. so surprised in fact that most soliders didn't fire a single bullet before they were dead, running or taken prisoner. That day sealed the fate of USSR (for reasons as to why you can read Victor Rezuns books).

[Blood-Pigggy]

Who is Victor RezunS?

[a1s]

Blood-Pigggy, on Jun 23 2006, 09:02 PM, said:

Who is Victor RezunS?

Rezun.
//it's caled posessive form (z.b. dogs nose, friends house, beginers luck).
Anyhow, the guy is a historitian who belives Stalin was planing to attack Nazis in late 1941 in order to achive world domination (actulay probably just domination of Eurasia, but than again in a deacade or so he would probably continue to take over the rest of the world), which incidentaly is why the soviets were in the middle of a Massive (with a capital M) restructuring and modernisation effort at the begining of Barbarossa and had no defensive strategies prepared whatsoever (I hope it is evident that no country that didn't just undergo a radical change of government (like a revolution) would under normal circumastnces be caught that unprepared). He doesn't give any direct evidence to his ideas, but it all seems very logical and exaplains the events of the late 30s much better than what they teach us in school.

[BeefontheBone]

If you're going to get snippy about grammar, at least include the apostrophe in Rezun's, dog's, beginner's etc.

[Blood-Pigggy]

Yeah, why are you poking fun at my grammar when you didn't even properly do yours.

[Juni Ori]

There are actually quite many historians, who believe that Stalin was planning to take over Europe. There are no direct evidences, as far as I know, but many documents suggest about it. Soviet Union was so badly surprised mostly because German impudence and well performed planning. Also, Stalin had given instructions to not react to German provokations and by no means provoke them. This led to total chaos in Red Army in the first days of East Front. He honestly (found in his diaries) believed that all Hitler was trying to gain more land by political pressure, not invasion. He was also planning to give certain border provinces to keep Hitler content. Other reasons to the collapse of Red Army were comissars, chaining up commanders' hands; lack of depth in defence; organization, they hadn't learned even from Winter War the use of independent armored forces, instead they used them in clumsy infantry support role; and officer purge, they still didn't have too many competent high ranking officers.

But claiming that Red Army collapsed because they were forming up for attack, is false. Red Army didn't have even strength according to their strategists and all units were assigned to barracks and peacetime duties, remarkable number of troops were at home, air forces were concentrated to training airfields and most were along Moscow-Berlin railroad, just to ease the burden of maintaining them. Can't recall any good book at the moment, that would explain the situation thoroughly, but I'll try to find one.

Btw, small trivia here: less than two hours before the Operation Barbarossa was launched, train from Berlin to Moscow crossed the border. In truth German special forces had already crossed border and began to cut of communication lines.

[a1s]

Juni Ori, on Jun 24 2006, 09:08 AM, said:

But claiming that Red Army collapsed because they were forming up for attack, is false. Red Army didn't have even strength according to their strategists and all units were assigned to barracks and peacetime duties, remarkable number of troops were at home, air forces were concentrated to training airfields and most were along Moscow-Berlin railroad, just to ease the burden of maintaining them. Can't recall any good book at the moment, that would explain the situation thoroughly, but I'll try to find one.

that is not exaclty right, people were nto so much doing peace time duties, as just enjoying their R&R, it's a good Idea to keep the toops well rested before a legthy capmaign when they won't be sent home much. as for the planes, they were in the training airfields because most field airfileds were being repaired, which allso adds to our assumption.

BeefontheBone, on Jun 24 2006, 03:47 AM, said:

If you're going to get snippy about grammar

excuse me?