294 replies to this topic

[Tom Henrik]

I have to agree with that. If someone is too busy to play the game, they shouldn't sign up. The same goes for when they have other plans, and can't participate.

But this goes for the next game, as this one is already in progress, and what's done is done.

[DeathDude]

Well makes sense for next game since Tai did say not changing the rules once game is started, and yeah forgot to mention that should happen next game around my bad.

But yeah true enough if we kick players out then we could be kicking out the werewolf or seer which wouldn't be good, guess main thing is if you sign up make sure ya got time to play is the key.

[Tom Henrik]

Well, I don't see a problem kicking out the werewolves or the seer. What good are they if they aren't active?

People should just go on a witchhunt for a werewolf that doesn't kill? Not to mention how easy the werewolves have it when they don't have to worry about the seer.

[taikara]

Well, the seer isn't particularly useful gaming wise, anyway, except for being alive. Even if the Seer DOES know who the wolves are, he/she still has to convince everyone else.

Werewolf-wise, there have been two per game, so if one is inactive, the second can pick up the slack.

Kicking people out  mid-game involves re-assigning roles, which is more damaging as the game is already occuring, especially the farther along the game progresses.

And assuming that we didn't re-assign roles - if a Seer hasn't been killed, it's unfair to the other players to take him/her out of the game entirely, because technically, that means the Seer is dead, and the rest of the players would receive a penalty to their rolls. Likewise, it's unfair to the wolves if you disregard the penalty in such a case, because they never got a chance to kill the Seer in order to effect the rolls.

And, obviously, it unfairly handicaps the wolves to toss one of them out for inactivity.

[Flop]

Tom Henrik, on Jan 2 2006, 03:37 AM, said:

Well, I don't see a problem kicking out the werewolves or the seer. What good are they if they aren't active?

People should just go on a witchhunt for a werewolf that doesn't kill? Not to mention how easy the werewolves have it when they don't have to worry about the seer.

Well, as for the werewolves, it's only a real problem if they participate in the beginning, but later stops being active. Kicking a werewolf out at that point and making another player the werewolf kind of upsets the whole game, since the villagers now have absolutely no idea about who to vote for.

As for the seer, it's a problem if that player isn't active. It's true that it's easier on the werewolves if there is no seer, but then you'd need some other mechanism to even the score and make it easier for the villagers. Part of the game is for the werewolves to figure out who's the seer, and if the seer's inactive or kicked out that part of the game is removed as well. In the last game, I actually replaced the seer after the first turn, because he didn't post, but doing it later in the game is a problem, as far as I can see, sor the same reasons as with the werewolves.

[Fawfulhasfury]

taikara, on Jan 2 2006, 01:12 AM, said:

Sorry guys, if I had known Fawful was going away on a trip for the first few days, I wouldn't have let him sign up.

Furthermore, I wasn't entirely in agreement with the original proposition for ghost votes for just this reason (especially not against players who don't vote - that could get really messy), but it was meant to discourage people from not participating, as it makes them an easier lynch.

However, it's not entirely due to the ghost votes that this happened, and you guys need to think about that. You have all had the ability to vote Faw out rather easily because of the ghost votes earlier in the game. In addition, it was a tie, and there were some players who didn't participate in the vote.

Really, it's just as much the player's faults this happened as it was Faw's for not participating. You all knew the rules about the ghost votes before we started playing, and I offered the opportunity to discuss changing them prior to the game starting. The next game, they can be tossed if that's what people want, and I personally would be all for it, but nobody objected to the rules for this game.

But Faw... just so you know, it's REALLY irksome that you signed up and then didn't participate for two turns, and I don't blame the players for being annoyed one bit. You shouldn't have signed up if you knew you were going on a family trip.

Edit: And Flop is entirely correct about kicking people out. I assigned roles by random number after everyone had posted their characters to me via PM or topic. If members who signed up don't participate, they could still be the seer or werewolf. 

I would be for either solution A or B, as C involves kicking out players, which can screw up the game even more.

All right listen I'm sry to caused any inconvenience, but this came out of the blue always does, and my parents always tell me about 5 minutes before we leave, so GET OFF MY CASE plz. I didn't know, and Tai I'm dissapointed you ran here assuming I did and saying I did me instead of coming to me and asking me. Next time, plz, plz ask me if I did beforehand. Thank you


Faw

[taikara]

Well, pardon me for attempting to point out that it wasn't entirely your fault this situation happened

[A. J. Raffles]

Sorry, guys, I think you misunderstood me there. My point in posting in this thread wasn't to harp on about Fawful's unsporting behaviour or to whine about my character having been killed. I only meant that ghost votes shouldn't be count towards the total of lynching votes, because it may lead to a situation in which the villagers are forced to lynch a particular character because of the ghost votes, which wasn't the original intention behind the ghost vote rule. If that sentence didn't make sense to you, imagine the following scenario:

Alfred
Balthazar (wolf)
Clarissa
Duncan
Edmund (seer)
Frances (wolf)
Gerald
Harold
Isabel
James
Kan'tbebotheredtocomeupwithanamestartingwithaK*

*Shortly after posting his character description, K has his laptop stolen / has problems with his internet provider / falls into a coma, so he doesn't get round to posting at all.

Day 1: The night before the game starts, Edmund dreams about Alfred and learns he's not a wolf. There is the usual introductory squabble between the villagers, but naturally, nobody's lynched just yet. Edmund decides to dream about Clarissa next. K doesn't post at all and receives one ghost vote against his name.
Day 2: Over night, the wolves kill Alfred. Edmund learns Clarissa isn't a wolf either. Some of the villagers (Clarissa, Frances, Harold, Isabel and James) find that Duncan is acting suspicious and decide to lynch him. Duncan is lynched. Edmund decides to dream about Gerald next. K doesn't post at all and receives his second ghost vote.
Day 3: Over night, the wolves succeed in turning Clarissa into a wolf. Edmund learns Gerald is not a wolf, but there are three votes for Gerald (Clarissa, Frances and Harold). No other character receives more than two votes (there is a stray vote for Frances and two each for James and Edmund), so Gerald is lynched, as he has 1/3 of the votes. Edmund decides to dream about Balthazar next. K still hasn't made a single post, so he gets a third ghost vote.
Day 4: Over night, the wolves kill James. Edmund learns that Balthazar is indeed a wolf. Now there's only Balthazar, Clarissa, Edmund, Frances, Harold, Isabel and K left. Edmund manages to convince Harold and Isabel to lynch Balthazar (the wolves decide it would look too suspicious if they all voted for the same person, so Clarissa votes for Edmund and the other two vote for Isabel). However, K has the same number of votes as Balthazar through the ghost votes, so no lynching takes place. Edmund decides to dream about Frances next. K gets a fourth ghost vote.
Day 5: This night, the wolves' attack fails because Harold turns out to have a defensive virtue. Edmund learns that Frances is a wolf. Edmund, Harold and Isabel vote for lynching Balthazar. Balthazar, Clarissa and Frances vote for lynching Edmund, because they're suspecting him of being the seer. K still hasn't turned up, but since he has accumulated four ghost votes, he is the one that gets lynched.

The game of course ends in an easy victory for the wolves as they pick off the remaining villagers one by one. Neither the wolves' nor the villagers' playing but the ghost votes have decided the outcome of the game.

Edited by A. J. Raffles, 02 January 2006 - 10:01 AM.

[Sean]

I'd be in favour of solution B I think. I don't like the idea of kicking players out especially if roles then have to be re-assigned. The simple answer to this is make absolutely certain that you have time to play.

One last thing...

B00Ni3 G0T PwnZ0r3d!

[A. J. Raffles]

But isn't this exactly what happened for the first round? Havell was meant to be the seer but failed to report back on time, so Tom became the seer instead. Anyway, my point wasn't that inactive people should be kicked out (even though it beats me why you'd sign up if you didn't want to play) but that ghost votes might unbalance the game if they count towards the total of votes, as they currently do.

[DeathDude]

definitely can lead to unbalance like ya say AJ and really can play all the impact in the end when the time comes...

[Flop]

Inactive people do unbalance the game, but so does kicking them out. There really isn't anything you can do to guarantee that there won't be any inactive players, but if you use either method a or b, as I suggested that should go a long way to minimize the damage, in my opinion.

[Fawfulhasfury]

taikara, on Jan 2 2006, 04:47 AM, said:

Well, pardon me for attempting to point out that it wasn't entirely your fault this situation happened

I'm sry Tai, the way you said it, it came across that you were saying I knew and therefor eit was my fault. I mean if I could've unregistered from the game I would've but I wouldn't have had time in those 5 minutes Sry Tai. I misunderstood.

@Abi, how was I unsporting?

[Juni Ori]

Anyone ready preparing Werewolf #3? It's getting time to! I have an idea for setting and rules, but I'm not quite sure yet what my schedule will be. Perhaps on thursday I'll know.

[Sean]

Who's moderating Game#3?