43 replies to this topic

[Mighty Midget]

The Camo Workshop has these 2 games as freeware. Will they be put up on AR by links or whatever (they're rather big)?

[a1s]

but aren't they just very advanced demos though? Or is it just World At War?

[Mighty Midget]

I'm not sure what you mean by demos, they are full games. About WaW: I wouldn't know since I never played that one.

The thing about the SP series, is that they were written for DOS, but Cameo re-worked the last one to work under windows, as well as including new features and brushing up the game as a whole. So basically, you'll get the full SP ++.

[PrejudiceSucks]

a1s, on May 20 2007, 04:17 PM, said:

but aren't they just very advanced demos though? Or is it just World At War?

... no, SPMBT is a full game, and a very good one, too (need to get my arse in gear and review it) and WaW is also the full version.

[Juni Ori]

For some reason I thought we already had SPWAW up... At least I couldn't find it. Anyways, both WinSPs are definitely full versions (not even patched anymore afaik) and as Mighty Midget mentioned, they are at last windows versions and with some very nice additional features, such as spotter planes, more accurate and wider selection of equipment - especially I'm happy with the improved selection of anti-aircraft artillery and infantry. However, I miss "true troop rarity"-option, which was in SPWaW. However, it would need little improvement (for example: returning the unit available when you remove it from your unit list...) and tweaking. Also, the same problems remain in AI. It is unable to use even artillery efficiently most of the time. Okay, admitted, 75mm and 105mm artillery usually has more ammunition the can spend in the turn limit, but even still there's no reason to blindly bombard thick woods and get retaliation by counter-artillery. Overall I think all the three games should be covered in one review, as they don't have that much differences.

[Mighty Midget]

About the artillery in "home made" campaigns: I believe the designers had sort of an idea how you would attack/defend, and set the artillery attack hexes accordingly. Not much for the AI to do. Still, there are times when the AI takes more control over the artillery and as long as you've been spotted and is near the defined attack hexes, I found their artillery to be quite effective in slowing me down (I think this is the major point of the artillery: To slow down/route your units more than take them out as in say, Panzer General). One way to render their artillery pretty much useless, is to use APCs to move your slow inf units away from the planned bombardement hexes. It will take the computer at least two rounds to move their fire to the new hexes. But then again, the same goes the other way around

And there still are aircrafts >< Somehow they NEVER seem to miss. Your aircrafts? Piloted by blind chimpanzees. End Of Story.

[Juni Ori]

Yeah in my latest long campaign Soviet Il-2's made a totally random sweep to small "path" in forest I was using to advance with my reserves! The whole forest around it had been sweeped clear of enemy long time ago and now my slow panzers were advancing to battle. Well, they didn't ever make it. I tried to figure how on earth enemy might had spotted them, but there was no way I could think of. Hills and forests blocking every way and I even spent some times searching the woods if there were any sneaky soviets there. Nope, there wasn't. Four Pz.4's destroyed/immobilized... (Next time I'll make sure every panzer zug has at least some AA-cover...)

[Mighty Midget]

I don't think the(ir) aircrafts need a spotting unit. They are their own OBs. One issue remains: The manual states smoke and fire will make targeting difficult and chances are the aircrafts will target friendly units if they're close to the attack area. Well, seems that goes for your own planes only. The enemy shows utter disregard for any smoke, fire or whatever and never hit their own units. That is kinda annoying.

EDIT: I always try to take the least obvious route to the target. It seems the AI calculates what would be "clever" of you to do, and sets up counter attacks/strong defences in the obvious/not quite as obvious (but it makes for a more interesting game) areas, then I'll just do the "stupid" thing instead. Thus, often I avoid their artillery early in the game as well as out flanking them with my main force. It can be a bit tricky however, to learn exactly what the AI considers "obvious".

[a1s]

Mighty Midget, on May 21 2007, 01:04 PM, said:

And there still are aircrafts >< Somehow they NEVER seem to miss. Your aircrafts? Piloted by blind chimpanzees. End Of Story.

wait... you got planes in WaW? that's wierd I never get any (even if I set myeslf up for some in the options), I also remember finding a  few other things to be missing from that game (can't quite remember what though...). this led me to believe that the freely available version was some sort of demo/trial.

SPMBT is pretty cool though, even if you can't chose who to counterattack (fire defensively at), I still enjoy all the advanced units (though I seem to be completely incompetent with my heli-gunships).

BTW, does anyone want to play an MP game of SP:MBT? (someone form Europe would be nice).

[Mighty Midget]

Planes: That was SPMBT and SPWW2, not WaW.

I've never tried any mp games, but I'm in for a PBEM if you're interested (I have the WinSPMBT as well as WinSPWW2, latest version patched up)

EDIT: Seems there are some issues after all: Some of my savegames refuse to load, and in a PBEM session, the game suddenly refused to accept the recieved savegames. It said "the savegame's path has changed" or something similar. I forgot exactly what the message was, but it's close enough, I guess.

[Juni Ori]

a1s, on May 22 2007, 12:41 AM, said:

Mighty Midget, on May 21 2007, 01:04 PM, said:

And there still are aircrafts >< Somehow they NEVER seem to miss. Your aircrafts? Piloted by blind chimpanzees. End Of Story.

wait... you got planes in WaW? that's wierd I never get any (even if I set myeslf up for some in the options), I also remember finding a  few other things to be missing from that game (can't quite remember what though...). this led me to believe that the freely available version was some sort of demo/trial.

SPMBT is pretty cool though, even if you can't chose who to counterattack (fire defensively at), I still enjoy all the advanced units (though I seem to be completely incompetent with my heli-gunships).

BTW, does anyone want to play an MP game of SP:MBT? (someone form Europe would be nice).

Ever since WaW there has been even tactical bombers, not only dive- and fighter-bombers. So, to answer your question, yes, I do get planes in WaW, however not always. It's tough luck if you haven't had any. Check out in-game encyclopedia and after several pages you'll find bombers. And I think almost all countries have possibility for at least some air support.

I'm in Europe and I might be interested to take couple of clashes, even in MBT, but it isn't my favorite. Mid 80's clash between the two big ones in Germany is a real classic and one of the few really balanced participants. Also Iraq-Iran and Vietnam scenarios seem to work quite well. One I'd might be interested to test is SU-Afghanistan clash in late 80's, when Afghans have air defense.

Gunships are devastating support force when used properly. Several times I've played with SU and won thanks to Hinds. Counterpart from west, Apache, is a real tank killer, however it isn't perfect. Basic hint: stay behind forests and hills and fire from cover. For example Apache Longbow has sensors, radar and camera above the main rotor and it can fire its missiles in angles, so in practice it can detect enemy tanks and destroy them and only reveal torso-sized ball and possibly bit of main rotor, being extremely difficult to be detected and in practice impossible to be destoryed. Also scout gunships - as well as infantry - can laser the target in reality, but I've never even tried does it work in MBT. Major problem with most gunships is their low ammo. Advanced hint: never fire other weapons except the one best able to destroy the target and never let the gunship fire on its own uncontrolled.

I'm taking few battles on MBT to get the feeling of the game. But let's continue multiplaying discussion in a new thread in mulitplaying forum?

Edit: Btw, I meant that you need to know the whereabouts of the enemy units to strike them effectively with bombers.

[a1s]

when I said that I don't get Air support is WaW, I didn't mean I didn't find any, but that it would literally not let me buy any, as if I had no air strikes, which I did.

about low ammo in gunships- invest in ammo dumps. it takes 2 turns to fully reload a hind, but it's well worth it. ofcourse that isn't very realistic (I think). allso, if a gunships is dealt *any* damage, it will return to base, which is annoying and in my opinion also unreal, so it balances out.

[Juni Ori]

That's strange...

Ammo dumps - especially those that are rearming units - are extremely tempting targets... Also helos have to be landed, which makes them vulnerable to artillery fire. But it's true that their pilots are cowards - however it may reflect the fact that helicopter doctrines underline their cost - which is very high.

[PrejudiceSucks]

Juni Ori, on May 26 2007, 01:04 AM, said:

That's strange...

Ammo dumps - especially those that are rearming units - are extremely tempting targets...

Or indeed - if a tank's starting to piss you off, then try to rush into the same hex with an ammo truck (shift-click to get into the exact hex) and it gets blown sky-high along with your truck if it destroys it - yook out a Merkheva, worth about 450 points, with a single 27-point truck once - oh how happy I was

Quote

Also helos have to be landed, which makes them vulnerable to artillery fire. But it's true that their pilots are cowards - however it may reflect the fact that helicopter doctrines underline their cost - which is very high.

Err they don't have to be landed... they can stay in the air between turns, Juni.

[a1s]

PrejudiceSucks, on May 26 2007, 01:47 PM, said:

Quote

Also helos have to be landed, which makes them vulnerable to artillery fire.<..>

Err they don't have to be landed... they can stay in the air between turns, Juni.

they have to be landed to reload.

the question I have to ask is how does the enemy know where your ammo dumps are? unlike tanks, helis can travel half across the map to rearm, so you can have dumps located deep behind your lines. and ofcourse like PS said you can use trucks.