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#31 BeefontheBone

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 05:35 PM

View PostBlood-Pigggy, on Dec 21 2007, 01:50 AM, said:

Yeah, until you play like fifteen minutes in and realize the interface is like Ultima Underworld's except you're in hell and everything has to be ten times more difficult for no reason at all.
So, true to the original, then? :P
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#32 Blood-Pigggy

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 08:28 PM

I was talking about the original, I haven't played the remake yet, probably because the original had the worst interface I've ever seen in a game of its type.

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#33 Juni Ori

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 10:26 AM

View PostDoubler, on Dec 21 2007, 06:00 PM, said:

You're forgetting that apparently those games that such people call dibs on all the time are also those that some people seem to have had enough of. LOL
As I see it then, there's not much keeping other people from reviewing those games they want to see. There's no 'elite' that would keep them from it.

And otherwise, I think most people can speak for themselves in such a matter. I've seen or heard little to indicate the problem you pose. :P

Now if you think a small group is doing most of the work at the moment, then I think you should at least pose the question whether that's because they are overzealous, or that there's some other reason. For example: that there's not much counterweight, which can make it seem or make it necessary that those that are active take on more.
When I was crew-member I received a PM from a person who wishes to remain anonymous, claiming that there's some person who did not even reply to a humble beg that he would like to review a certain game that this some person had called dibs for. I'm not trying to undermine the society or flame anyone, my goal is to give constructive criticism. There were several intersting games I would had liked to review - and I'm impudent enough to say that I would had done far better work. Perhaps two reviews and some bot-hunting is enough, most likely I won't be doing much else. Not alone because I couldn't. And about elitism, yes there is. I saw it back then, I see it now. It's not this some person alone, there are others too. However, there are less elitists, like you for example.
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#34 Tulac

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 12:13 PM

If I'd want more reviews and stuff I'd do them (the fact that I'm an lazy *money-maker* prevents me :P ). Since I update on abandonia and I believe things are not much different here (except in the technical process) we always encourage new members to make reviews and put them on the site before the reviews of older members, and we also look at the dates as to how long the game has been waiting on the server.

I really believe there's no elitism here, maybe some misunderstandings or something but I don't think that  elitism would make sense. Actually it would be quite stupid of those so called "elitists" to put all the work on their backs, why would anyone want that?

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#35 Juni Ori

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 12:31 PM

If respected member (sorry if I've described you too much, you know who, but I think this much is necessary here) asks a crew-member if he could do review that this crew-member have dibs on doesn't even get a reply, not to mention review the game, I call it elitism. If you don't, please tell how you understand elitism. And this is only one example, though significantly most blatant.

Immediate edit: Anyways this is going off-topic and possibly will go back and forth without any advance, so I think I won't continue this any further.
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#36 Doubler

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 01:43 PM

Juni, as far as we can see you're basing this on a single case that nobody else knows anything about (since you recieved the PM). And I heavily suspect it's based on an accident

So we really need to know what you mean -exactly- with 'elitism', and which examples of it you see.
Does anyone else besides Juni experience this sort of 'elitism' he does?
I assure there's never been any intent to create some sort of elite (besides maybe the VIP system. But that was really meant as a reward to active members, not create some sort of divide with the rest), but if more people experience this then there's a problem that needs to be attended to.

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#37 A. J. Raffles

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 01:47 PM

Juni, it sounds like you've got a specific grievance there, so it would probably make more sense if you PM me (or Doubler or anybody else you don't consider "elitist") so we can sort it out. Dropping lots of ominous hints about "you-know-who" and speculating about a generally "elitist" attitude isn't going to help anyone, really...:P

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#38 Juni Ori

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 02:02 PM

I'm sorry that I can't reveal the person who contacted me then as I've promised to keep him in secret. All you have is my word and I have his. However one thing backed him up: person accused never replied to my perhaps little accusing question in the past. There was no reply and I followed carefully how this person was online soon after I had posted it.

Doubler, this is not about single case. Not at all, but look below.

AJ, that's why I don't continue this discussion any further. I only hope that my hint has waked up some thoughts in certain heads.
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#39 Doubler

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 02:09 PM

Juni, we don't need hints. We need to know what's the problem if we're going to do something about it LOL
Seriously, just dropping such hints does little but make people uncertain and undermine the atmosphere on the forums and that's not helping anyone. That's worse then any elitism I can imagine. So please stop doing that and decide whether you've got something substantial to tell or not. If you do: yes, we'd really like to hear it. If you don't, please stop :P

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#40 Juni Ori

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 02:11 PM

If you don't know what I'm talking about, you are not the one. Others can ignore it. And self-criticism is always good thing, so perhaps everybody could think what he or she is doing wrong - perhaps even elitistic.
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#41 Frodo

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 02:14 PM

View PostTulac, on Dec 22 2007, 12:13 PM, said:

.... and we also look at the dates as to how long the game has been waiting on the server.
I do think that we should put up games that have been waiting longest on the server.   :P

What if we restrict everyone to calling dibs on only one game at a time.  That would give others more of a chance to review the games they want.   LOL
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#42 A. J. Raffles

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 02:21 PM

View PostJuni Ori, on Dec 22 2007, 03:11 PM, said:

If you don't know what I'm talking about, you are not the one. Others can ignore it. And self-criticism is always good thing, so perhaps everybody could think what he or she is doing wrong - perhaps even elitistic.
Look,Juni,  if this is all just directed at a particular person, then PM that person and sort it out directly with him/her. If it's a private issue (as apparently it is), sort it out in private and don't post about it in a public forum. All this dropping of hints and "everybody should consider what he or she is doing wrong" stuff is idiotic in my opinion - it doesn't achieve anything, and it poisons the atmosphere. If you want your problem sorted out, then either PM "you-know-who" directly or PM a crew member so we can take care of it, but this whole "I'm holding a grudge, and I want you all to know I'm holding a grudge, but I won't tell you what it is" game is both silly and pointless.

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#43 Juni Ori

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 02:28 PM

Fine AJ, don't even try then. But Frodo, excellent suggestion, why didn't I think of that? Most logical and easiest way to sort one problem.

But here's small "what happened?" to those who have apparently missed what I'm talking of:

I spoke about elitism.
My accusation was questioned.
I mentioned an example in which I had to keep one person in secret and I politely did not mention the other one.
Now I'm being blamed because I kept my word and I was polite.
Great... :P
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#44 Doubler

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 03:19 PM

We've not asked you to call names, although I don't think being 'polite' is the best course of action here.

Quote

this is only one example, though significantly most blatant.
A couple of less obvious examples may help.
Then defining exactly what you experience as elitism (like I asked you) will help a lot.
Finally we need to know if there's other people who experience this elitism of which you speak. And I expect those other people can speak for themselves.

And no, it doesn't do that only you and the elitists apparently know about this elitism :P

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#45 A. J. Raffles

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 06:15 PM

View PostJuni Ori, on Dec 22 2007, 03:28 PM, said:

Now I'm being blamed because I kept my word and I was polite.
Great... :P
You misunderstood me. If I'm blaming you for anything it's for making a complaint and then doing your best to prevent us from actually trying to resolve the problem. If it bugs you so much, I (and the rest of the crew members as well, I'm sure) would be more than happy to try and find a solution, but if you don't actually want it fixed, because your code of honour prevents you from providing the necessary information to the people who want to help you, then frankly, I don't see why you would even bother to complain about it in the first place.

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